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Mark Aceto

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Posts posted by Mark Aceto


  1. I love that we're all obsessing over GPU's, multiple cores...  and then spend 15min individually updating a single revision note repeated on every single sheet of a drawing set. And the cherry on top is when I double click a revision note, nothing happens. Sort of like double clicking a column to autofit it will either A) autofit the column or B) minimize the column to 1 pixel wide or C) maximize the column 30' to the right.


    Dark mode would be nice but these are the UI/UX issues that consistently keep me at work past 11pm.

    • Like 2

  2. 22 minutes ago, Andrew Davies said:

    I couldn’t find a GPU card (that I could fit in an eGPU enclosure) that was USB-C out to the monitor 

     

    That's another stupid Apple thing (most great displays/GPU's are DP not T3) but I got one of these cables on Amazon to use with my iMac Pro and BenQ 4k display, and it works great: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075V27G2R/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

     

    I'm sure there are even more options available today.

    • Like 1

  3. 1 hour ago, Sky said:

    You can download the a revit file for a True Mfg refrigerator here: http://truefoodservice.kclcad.com/Mobile/?search=T-43

     

    Not sure if this helps in the short term while VW fixes that bug but I downloaded a DWG from that same link and it imported into VW 2019 SP2 on Mac OS 10.13.6* with no issues. BTW I use these double doors for events from time to time, so thanks for the link.

     

    *Understanding that this is a Mojave thread, just want to clarify that I'm on HS until 10.14.3 x 2019 SP3

     

    1328690917_ScreenShot2018-11-21at2_32_55PM.thumb.png.9be169da3cc2abe620a74954928db9e5.png

    • Like 1

  4. 6 hours ago, Jim Wilson said:

    The issue is that there is NO variable that can be changed at the present time to prevent Vectorworks from freezing in these scenarios. I will test CPU clock speed to see if that can help mitigate it, but it cannot be avoided entirely until we replace more of it's older systems.

     

    Something is getting lost in translation... While I appreciate your transparency and completely understand what you're saying about the code, I'm asking about hardware. When my system is reporting a single core choking at 4.26ghzregardless of what app I'm using - my interpretation of that data is to increase the clock speed. I don't expect a faster chip to solve the problem but I do hope that it will help with fewer freezes (more headroom).

     

    The reason I spec'd this iMac Pro with overkill RAM and VRAM was because I wanted to be certain, without a shadow of doubt or speculation, what hardware is constraining VW. For example, when my 2014 MacBook Pro runs out of memory (16gb), I'm left to wonder will 32gb be enough? But with 64gb RAM and 16gb VRAM, the only hardware constraint I've observed is single core performance.

     

    So, the question is: with the current code of VW 2019 as it stands, what is the CPU that will constrain VW the least? Based on what I'm seeing on a regular basis in the screenshot I provided, my guess is the i7 4-core 4.2ghz base clock speed that turbos to a theoretical 5.0ghz.

     


  5. On 11/13/2018 at 12:08 PM, Mark Aceto said:

    That's the part I'm confused about. My computer is flexing its full muscle (one muscle; one core) until it hits a ceiling and freezes the app, so i don't understand how a 2ghz muscle will have the same performance as a 4ghz muscle. I want the most headroom as possible before I hit that ceiling.

     

    On 11/13/2018 at 12:10 PM, Jim Wilson said:

    It is indeed confusing. Some of the older portions of Vectorworks are capable to completely utilizing a core... and doing hardly anything with that usage. However you're right, ill do a more modern test (I havent done a practical one since the Intel Core 2 Duo days now that I think about it)  and confirm how much of a factor clock speed really is both inside and outside of geometry.

     

    Screenshot attached of the single core CPU constraint that I described. Whether rotating a complex DWG import, importing/exporting a 3DM file, rendering a hidden line SLVP, publishing a drawing set or countless other operations...  this is the scenario that stops me in my tracks.

     

    2018 was far worse, so I'm grateful for the improvements in 2019 but this still happens constantly. In fact, there are some single cores operations that I can't complete on my 2014 MacBook Pro that I can complete on my 2017 iMac Pro, so I'd like to understand why a faster single core clock speed would not help me.

     

    Troubleshooting Process of Elimination

    • As you can see in the screenshot, the 16gb AMD GPU is barely being tapped at all (even with a 2nd 4k display), so that's not a factor
    • 64gb RAM is overkill, so that's not a factor
    • 10 cores certainly aren't holding me back on VW's 4-core limit, so there's only one factor that freezes the app: single core clock speed*
      • *Well, that and the fact that Apple throttles the CPU before turning on the fans, so I would love to know if there's an unofficial workaround to hit 4.5ghz (I've never caught it breaking 4.3ghz)

    Assessment

    • Adding RAM would not help (in fact, I could reduce to 32gb without lowering any performance)
    • Upgrading the GPU would not help (in fact, I could reduce to 8gb without lowering any performance)
    • Adding more cores would not help (in fact, reducing number of cores to increase single core clock speed would be an upgrade with the exception of CPU-based rendering which is fast becoming obsolete)
    • Unless I'm missing something, the only other variable left to prevent VW from freezing is to bump the single core clock speed

    Screen Shot 2018-11-18 at 8.44.05 PM (2).png


  6. 39 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:


    If Apple would freaking finally resume selling one, id push users to buy it. My main motivation with this eGPU testing is that it really, really, really seems like Apple wants to make everyone use eGPUs so that they can still make slim/tiny/aesthetically pleasing devices at the cost of performance. Theyre happy forcing users to carry half a dozen dongles everywhere with their laptop, so it would really not surprise me at this point if the new Mac Pro was just a glossy black sphere with 4 usbC ports that they expect you to plug eGPUs, displays, and dongles of all sorts into.

    I dont WANT them to do that, but it's looking more and more like they might, so im preparing information to support users if that eventually happens. I would LOVE to be completely wrong and for them to release a new modifiable, professional chassis that could last users another full decade, and if that happens i will gladly toss all this prep work in the trash.

     

    I'm afraid you're right. And we have three options:

    1. Pay them for this overpriced downclocked heat throttled consumer garbage, buy the eGPUs and dongles... and enable their nonsense
    2. Hold on to the cheesgraters and 2015 MBP's and vote with our dollars
    3. Build a hackintosh (except for laptops?)

    But I'm really looking forward to the next season of Carpool Karoke! [extreme sarcasm]


  7. 44 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

    Yes, thats the geometry phase choking and not letting your computer flex it's full muscle, thats normally the fault of Vectorworks older code we havent yet replaced. 

     

    That's the part I'm confused about. My computer is flexing its full muscle (one muscle; one core) until it hits a ceiling and freezes the app, so i don't understand how a 2ghz muscle will have the same performance as a 4ghz muscle. I want the most headroom as possible before I hit that ceiling.

     


  8. 16 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

    If you mean SECTION viewports on sheet layers, i suspect theyd be the same or in near-as-makes-no-difference territory, ill set up a clearer test later on but it can be hard to get 2 CPUs from the same generation where the only difference is the clock speed, ill see what i can get my hands on.

     

    Thanks, Jim. No, not sections; just plan, elevation, iso.

     

    I think for us Mac users, we’re looking at which one of the “greatest hits” will get us the most bang for our buck (and what features are a waste of money). In other words, how does a 2012 Mac Pro 12-core 1080 ti stack up against a 2017 iMac Pro 10-core Vega (exactly the same; I’ve own both) vs a maxed out iMac vs a MBP vs a maxed out Mini.

     

    The 1080 ti is a particular pain point because, although it’s a killer GPU, my understanding is the VW isn’t CUDA, the Mac web drivers suck, and Macs are optimized for AMD’s. So Mac users have all this FOMO over NVIDIA but meanwhile an AMD 580 is probably just as fast as a 1080 ti for using VW on a mac vs gaming on windows. Unfortunately, it’s Apple’s #thin&light laptops that take the biggest GPU hit, especially for the price.


  9. 8 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

    Vectorworks' geometry calculation is SO inefficient and slow, that it is almost unnoticeably different between 2ghz and 4ghz clock speeds.

     

    How does this explain when Activity Monitor shows "Application Not Responding", a single core (or four) has maxed out one or both threads, and the GPU and RAM are barely being used. This seems like a clear cut example of (single core) CPU-constrained performance. And being that VW can't use more than four cores, that's also a constraint until SP?

     

    Do you have a side by side test of a current 2ghz and 4ghz machine? I'd be especially interested to see how they perform on sheet layers, as that seems to be where VW really puts on the brakes.


  10. 28 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

    I just went ahead and purchased a low end refurbished iMac Pro. I'd been waiting for a new iMac but my 2012 15" MacBook Pro was showing its age on my current projects so I had to find a new option. I'll be very disappointed if it doesn't trounce my current machine.

     

    , I would have sold you mine.

     

    The SLVP's are the typical ortho views: plan, front, side, iso. It seems like one way to speed it up is to quit and restart VW 2019 hourly.

     


  11. 17 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

    It does not, it's GPU holds it back significantly, but the cost is significantly less. The Mac Mini is $1,300 as I have it configured currently, that iMac config is $2,300. The Mini also has 12 logical cores instead of 8, so even with a lower clock speed it can trounce the iMac in CPU based renderings.

     

    How much does it cost with the eGPU?

     

    If I spec'd my workstation based on CPU rendering (which I did with this iMac Pro), I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face. VW 2019 is only capable of using 4 cores for all the modeling that comes before the rendering, and much of the time, it's still using 1 core. So if this iMac Pro is slow for modeling, I can only imagine how slow that Mac Mini is.

     

    It's easy to get caught up in the hype of numbers and specs and marketing... but the reality is that VW 2019 models fastest on a 2017 Mac with a built in 8GB GPU (that pales in comparison to a 1080 ti, sure, but VW 2019 isn't capable of maxing out the 580, so it won't feel any faster).

     

    I cannot express the crushing buyer's remorse of spending $$$$$ on a computer that runs VW slower than a $$$ computer. And the whole rendering thing... the third party GPU based renderers won. Why would I spend $$$$$$$$$$ on an 18-core machine that takes hours to render a still, when Unreal/TwinMotion, and Lumion can take a screenshot. Not to mention the higher core count cripples the single core clock speed. That's a terrible ROI for a business that runs on modeling, plating and rendering.

     


  12. Not seeing how this comes remotely close to the year old iMac with a base clock speed of 4.2 and a 580 built in (and costs less when configured the same).

     

    This is still the hierarchy for 80% of what I'm doing* in VW until Apple releases something new:

    1. Hackintosh
    2. 2017 iMac
    3. 2017 iMac Pro
    4. 2018 MacBook Pro + eGPU
    5. 2018 Mac Mini + eGPU

    * The speed boosts in 2019 were nice but I'm experiencing a 20% improvement at best. SLVP's are still excruciating on an iMac Pro, and I'm barely touching my GPU ever. The fastest base clock 4-core CPU + 8GB GPU + 32GB RAM + 4k display/s is still the sweet spot for using VW for the next year or so. And trying to configure that same machine to also render with Renderworks...  fuhgettaboutit.


  13. 3Dconnexion released a driver update on 10/31 with added support for Mojave if that helps anyone (didn't solve my reboot issue on HS):

     

    https://www.3dconnexion.com/service/drivers.html

     

    Version 10.6.0 (r2876; October 19, 2018). First public release of version 10.8.

    • New: 3DxMacCore v. 1.0.0 (b32, e88f6db; Oct 19, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxAcrobat3D v. 1.1.2 (r710; Oct 5, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxCollage v. 1.1.0 (r15444; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxMaya v. 4.5.1 (r15417; Oct 8, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxNLServer v. 1.3.1 (r15387; Oct 1, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxPair v. 2.2.0 (r15446; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxPuzzle v. 1.0.6 (r15445; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxPhotoshop v. 2.9.0 (r15412; Oct 5, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxSketchUp v. 4.6.0 (r15411, branches/4; Oct 5, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxTrainer v. 1.0.5 (r15443; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxViewer v. 2.0.13 (r15441; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Removed: 3DPackage (replaced by 3DxMacCore).
    • New: [MAC-56] Add support for Apple macOS 10.14 ("Mojave").
    • New: [MAC-58] Added support for Adobe Photoshop CC 2018.
    • Fix: Removing a page via <Delete> key did not update the view in Collage.
    • Change: 3DxDemo now also opens on machines with no OpenGL acceleration. Demo
    • now also uses FSAA to improve rendering quality.
    • Change: Removed support for 32-bit editions of Trimble SketchUp. Minimum supported
    • SketchUp version is 2015 (64-bit).
    • Note: 3DxMacCore replaces the "3DPackage" component and includes 3DxDemo,
    • 3DxNumpad, 3DxRadialMenu, 3DxSNAxisDemo and 3DxVirtualLCD.
    • Like 2

  14. Every time I startup/reboot High Sierra I have to unplug, and then replug my 3Dconnexion CadMouse. I've emailed 3Dconnexion but their tech support is awful, so I just live with it. Good to know I'm not the only one having I/O issues with their products on a Mac (they prioritize Windows because their core focus is MCAD).

    • Like 1

  15. 24 minutes ago, CarlosMPA said:

    Editing symbols makes them disappear until I restart VW. Cropping bitmaps makes the image offset from the clipping path (see image attached). And of course crash after crash after crash...

     

    It seems that there are many issues related to graphics. I wonder if there is where the issues lie.

    Running dual graphics cards with 6gb of memory each I would assume no graphics issues but there you go.

     

    It's not all to do with MacOS and Mojave. There has to be something else going on since there are people (relatively) successfully running VW in Mojave like Zoomer mentioned.

     

    VW 2017 was the "Zoom In And Out Edition" for disappearing objects. VW 2019 is the "Quit And Restart Edition" for disappearing sheet layers, and all manner of graphical bugs.

     

    Meanwhile my 16GB Vega 64 rarely peaks above 25%, and editing SLVP's is only slightly less excruciating than 2018.


  16. 3 hours ago, Sade said:

    I'm doing a model of a site for a university project, but when I rotate the screen to look at it on different angles everything on the page disappears, how do I fix this?

     

    That's actually a "feature" of that tool, along with a whole host of other unpredictable things that happen.


  17. 1 hour ago, Jim Wilson said:

    You'd have your final renders just as images taken from Lumion on sheet layers I suppose, or deliver them via a different means entirely like a portfolio PDF or series of videos.

     

    Not including renders (or textures) in a drawing set is a fantastic way to keep file size down when collaborating with colleagues that don't need a 300MB sandbag bringing their 2015 MacBook Pros to a standstill. Whenever possible, I reference the model file for rendering in a new file.

     

    Plus a major selling point for Twinmotion is all of the entourage you get (along with the slick UI wrapped around the Unreal engine). And the idea of my renders becoming screenshots taken in real time? I can live with that workflow disruption.

     

    Plus, you know... volumetric lighting.

     

    We're already at a point that static images are losing ground to animations anyway. Overheard a year ago, "They won the bid with static images?"


  18. I suspect hope that Apple is working on their own processors which is why development has slowed for the Mac, and they're just cramming hot guts into recycled enclosures, and saying "there, we fixed it!" But we won't see those machines until 2020, so in the meantime, we have a bunch of imperfect solutions for our myriad workflows.

     

    The other nice thing about 2020 is that most rendering should be real time GPU-based by then, so now is not the time to throw down 10-15k for a bunch of cores to bounce out Cinema renders that take hours to bake. Unreal, Twinmotion (uses Unreal engine), Redshift and others are paving the way for that future.

     

    eGPU's are the new dongles.


  19. 17 hours ago, TKA said:

    so the new Mac Mini has been released, I have been waiting for this quite a while, obviously it will come with Mojave.  Is there a timeline for VW to be compatible with the new OS.  Alternatively, has anyone (I know nobody has an answer to that today) successfully downgraded new Mac mini to High Sierra?

     

    http://osxdaily.com/2018/10/21/download-macos-high-sierra-from-mojave/

     

    However, I wouldn't say the Mac Mini has a great CPU by any means, and if your desktop computer requires an eGPU to run your CAD software, it's not a workstation. And if recent history has taught us anything about jamming a 6-core CPU into a 4-year old thin and light enclosure, we can expect the usual thermal throttling from Tim, Jony and Phil.

     

    Take a look at the 2017 iMac with a 4.2 base clock and built in 8GB VRAM. It's a sleeper.


  20. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/10/all-new-macbook-air-takes-flight/

     

    Quote

     

    Radeon Pro Vega Graphics Coming to MacBook Pro Next Month

    Apple also today announced new MacBook Pro graphics options that will bring powerful Radeon Pro Vega graphics to MacBook Pro for the first time. These new graphics options deliver up to 60 percent faster graphics performance for the most demanding video editing, 3D design and rendering workloads.

     

    Notwithstanding thermal throttling, faulty keyboard that you can't take onsite, lightbar that nobody asked for and drives the price up, a removed Escape key that has to be remapped to the Caps Lock key, reflective screen and #thatdonglelife, this is encouraging news and good reason not to buy a MBP until next month.

    • Like 1

 

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