Working Planes and Extruded Rectangles

[bschang]

Hello:

The following series of events is confusing me:

(1) Start with a blank document.

(2) Change view to right isometric.

(2) Move the working plane 1" in the Z direction.

(4) Using the extruded rectangle tool, click on the origin of the working plane to set a corner point.

(5) Enter an exact height by entering a numerical value in the K text box in the data bar. Make the height 1".

(6) Pick an arbitrary end point.

You should now have a rectangular solid.

(7) Make sure that the snap to object constraint is enabled.

(8) Using the extruded rectangle tool, click on the origin of the working plane to set the same corner point as we used for the first solid.

(9) Enter an exact height (in the textbox) of 1" again.

This is where things get me confused. Rather than attempting to create a second solid with a height of 1", Vectorworks actually tries to make a solid with a height of 2". The Z point in the data bar shows 3".

This only seems to happen once one starts to move the working plane. The pattern seems to be the following:

If the working plane is positioned adjacent to an existing 3D object (such as after we made the first object), then the height of another extruded rectangle when entered in the data bar is wrong. It seems as if the snap to object constraint must be enabled for the weirdness to occur.

Am I doing something wrong? Why is my first solid correctly created with a height of 1" and my second is incorrectly created with a height of 2"?

I would appreciate any insight. I hope this isn't too confusing...

Thanks!

Brian Schang

[bschang]

Hello:

I also should have mentioned that I am using Vectorworks 9.5.2 for Windows.

Brian Schang

[P Retondo]

I'm not sure you are measuring correctly. When you switch to an isometric view, you are not actually changing the working plane or the coordinate system. After you extrude your objects, rotate them using the 3D orbit tool - at this point you should see that they have the same extruded length. If that isn't obvious, create a working plane on one of their faces. Using the working planes palette, snap to that point of view, choose the i,j,k mode, then switch to a side view. In four of the possible views you should see the objects in profile in such a way that it is possible to measure their extrusion lengths accurately.

The way I can tell that my 2D view is not aligned to the current working plane is that the 3D cursor's axis cue lines are not aligned up/down and side-to-side.

[ 03-26-2003, 01:34 AM: Message edited by: P Retondo ]

[bschang]

Hello:

I'm *pretty* sure that I'm measuring correctly.

Can't I tell that they are not the same depth by looking at the object info palette?

Again, here is what I'm doing:

(1) Open a blank document.

(2) Switch to an isometric view.

(3) Immediately move the working plane +1" Z. This places the working plane parallel to and 1" above the ground plane.

(4) Select the extruded rectangle tool from the 3D tools palette.

(5) Click to set a corner point at the origin of the working plane.

(6) Using the text boxes above the drawing (data display bar), enter a depth of 1" (K) and hit enter. This should precisely define the depth of the solid being created.

(7) Click the final corner point.

You should now have one solid. If you look at the object info palette, you should see a mesh object

with a depth of exactly 1".

(8) Re-Select the extruded rectangle tool from the 3D palette.

(9) Make sure that the snap to object contraint is on and select the origin again as the first corner point for the second solid.

(10) Using the data display bar, enter a precise depth of 1" (K) again and hit enter.

This is where things stop making sense for me. If you finish creating the second solid object by clicking on a second corner point, you'll notice that the depth of the second object is not 1" as we wanted, but rather the depth is 2".

The interesting thing is that if you try to create a third solid object, but first turn off the snap to object contraint, it will indeed have a depth of 1".

If I change my view from the isometric view to a orthogonal view, I can see that the depths are different.

Can anyone duplicate this? Does this make any more sense? Am I going crazy? :-)

Thanks.

Brian Schang

[bschang]

P Retondo (and others):

Thank you. I appreciate you willingness to help when you get a chance. I've been pulling my hair out trying to determine why I can create one object that has the correct depth, but subsequent objects are incorrect -- despite following the same procedure!

I also have not seen the same behavior with the creation of 2D objects and then extruding them. When extruding 2D objects, I believe that a dialog box appears explicitly asking for a depth. This appears to work fine.

Additionally, when using the extruded rectangle tool in an orthogonal view (not isometric), a similar "depth" dialog box appears. Again, this appears to work fine. It's only when I am using the extruded rectangle tool in an isometric view that I see this problem. I believe this is because while in an isometric view, no dialog or prompt appears to input a depth. One defines the depth of the object by defining a corner point. This is done either by using the mouse to locate the corner, or by entering a "K" value in the data display bar.

Much appreciated!

Brian Schang

[Guest]

Hello all,

I followed the steps you outlined on both Windows and Mac platforms. I didn't encounter the problem you had specifically. When you were entering the K-value of 1" was that in the coordinates right above the 'Mode Bar', or were you entering it in the Object Info palette?

When I did happen to get a Z-value of 3" for the height of the second extrd. rectangle though, it was because I started the rectangle at the origin, set the K-value as 1" and the final click snapped to the top (completely opposite from the origin) corner of the first rectangle. This caused the second rectangle to draw at an angle and in the Object Info palette displayed the Z-value as 3" as you mentioned.

I am referring an engineer to this latter problem. I hope this helps!

[bschang]

Devin (and others):

Thank you for trying.

Yes, the K-value that I entered was in the coordinates right above the mode bar (I think this is called the data display bar), not in the object info palette.

I'm not sure I understand your second statement. For the second extruded rectangle, you set the first corner point at the origin (the same point as the first mesh object). Then you entered a value of 1" in the K-value of the data display bar. I'm assuming that after you typed 1", you hit enter to latch the value.

When I hit enter to latch the value, I immediately see a dashed line that represents the depth of the object. Then I have to hit the mouse button to officially set the depth, and then I am free to set the final corner point. So in detail, this is what I am doing to make the extruded rectangle objects:

(1) Set first corner point at the origin.

(2) Enter a K-value of 1" in the data display bar.

(3) Hit 'ENTER' to latch the K-value. Note that after you hit enter, moving the mouse no longer adjusts the depth of the object since it is locked at 1". In other words, the dashed line stays constant.

(4) Click the mouse to officially set the depth of the object.

(5) After clicking the mouse, you can move the mouse to adjust the length and height of the object. During this time the I-value and J-value will update as you move the mouse. Then you can click to set the final corner point and create the mesh object.

These five steps work perfectly for the first extruded rectangle. However, if I attempt to create another extruded rectangle, and I use the same first corner point, and I have the snap to objects constraint active, step (3) fails. When I hit enter, the dashed line that represents the depth is not 1", but is 2". When I finish through step (5) and look at the object properties in the object info palette, indeed the depth is 2", despite having typed 1".

Is this similar to what happened to you? Is there any other info that anyone can use to help me with?

Thanks!

Brian Schang

[P Retondo]

Brian, I don't have time to try out your scenario right now, but I will later. My general observation is that I have been doing 3D work for years without encountering the problem you describe, but then again I never use the extruded rectangle tool. I always create a 2D object first then extrude it using "ctrl+E", which has always given me reliable and consistent results. Using this technique from an isometric view gives me rectangular objects which are tilted at 45 degrees with respect to 2 of the xyz axes.

[P Retondo]

Brian, 2 questions: 1) are you setting the first point at (0,0,0) using the data bar? And, 2) is there some reason you use this technique instead of the extrude command?

[bschang]

P Retondo:

(1) No, I did not set the first corner point by entering the coordinates in the data display bar. I just used the mouse and located the point visually. I did, however, confirm that I was at (0,0,0) with the bar.

(2) I am using the 3D extruded rectangle tool rather than extruding 2D objects since I like creating objects in the isometric view. I guess there is no reason that I can't use simpler extrusions, but now I'm pretty curious as to why the 3D objects are not working as I would expect.

Thanks.

Brian Schang

[bschang]

Hello:

I have taken others' advice and have been creating 2D rectangles and extruding them, rather than using the 3D extruded rectangle tool. Everything is working well. Thanks!

I'm still curious, though, why the 3D tool isn't working as I would expect. Has anyone had a chance to try to recreate my problem? Would this be a good question for the Solids Discuss area?

Thanks.

Brian Schang