Object Info Palette improvements.

[boxjoint]

Another thread mentions making improvements to the Object Info Palette.

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=88729#Post88729

Perhaps we can list them here.

I have one.

FLOOR SLABS:

Why do they only show a Bot. Z and Thickness in the OIP? They have an X and Y dimension too. This should show in the OIP.

I know that you can double click the slab object which shows and allows editing of original object used to create the slab and it's properties. I won't tell you how long it took me to figure that out.

But, the OIP is largely blank when viewing a slab. Why can't the info for the underlying object appear, even if it is uneditable until a button that says "Edit Floor Object" is clicked?

A related issue is that displaying the Bot. Z value is really meaningless unless we know the Z value for the layer the object is on. I'd like to see an option to have the Layer Z displayed in the Navigation palette for when you are working heavily with layers with different elevations.

[boxjoint]

Here's another:

3d OBJECTS Z VALUE:

We know that all objects are drawn on the layer ground plane by default (or optionally on a working plane). Wall objects display a Bot Z field in the OIP to allow them to be moved up or down. The number in the field reminds us where the wall is in the layer's Z space. ALL 3d objects should display a Z field that allow you to move the object in relation to the ground plane and provide information as to where that object is in Z space. Currently, extrudes do not have any info as to their Z location even after moving them.

Even objects that are drawn on a rotated or angled working plane or objects that are not rectilinear retain a relationship to the ground plane. The Z value of the object should refer to the lowest point of the object. (Bot. Z) If the program can place a bounding box around the object, surely it knows the limits of that box.

I realize there has been discussion on this before and that there are ways to determine the Z value of the vertices and such, but I cannot accept that, when I draw a simple shape, extrude it upwards, and relocate it using the Move 3D command, I am unable to see it's z value in the OIP.

It's my wish and I'm sticking to it. : )

[Chris D]

I have one, but it's not really an OIP problem, just the loopy way that VW deals with 3D:

In 2D plan view draw a shape, extrude it. Go to a side view. Now look at the data bar (bottom right of drawing window) and the OIP - they can't decide which way the Y axis is between them:

The data bar pretends the Z axis is the Y axis, while the OIP refers to the Y axis as the 2D plan view Y axis that you originally drew the shape in. The OIP doesn't even try and display the Z axis (it's probably confused, poor thing).

Absolutely nuts. Try explaining this to a newbie!

edit:

actually I think I'm saying a similar thing to boxjoint (second post)...just didn't understand his post on first reading it.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Chris D

[Chris D]

It's my wish and I'm sticking to it. : )

Count me in.

[Chris D]

On the OIP generally - I hate scrolling, and I'm not alone.

The answer may be staring us in the face, and it isn't tabs - the Toolsets palette has a brilliant way of storing loads of information and is very snappy about doing it too.

Those push-bars (for want of their real name) are spring-loaded little beauties, so how about using them to organise the information in bloated OIP layouts such as the doors OIP?

And while we're at it, can we make the OIP a little more pictorial. We don't use terms like muntin* in the UK, so to save me having to google these things it would help to have more visual feedback about just what these myriad of settings refer to.

*muntin = glazing bar

[Petri]

It's my wish and I'm sticking to it. : )

Count me in.

Count me out. While it might be possible with "simple" 3D-extrusions, it would be very confusing to see info of some 3D-objects, not some others.

On the other hand: bottom & top z-values are always unambiguous, so they could well be shown. Possibly also centre.

[Chris D]

Count me out.

Petri, would you not go along with the principle that the axes should be static, and only your view changes. So when I'm in 2D plan view Z is coming towards me, and when in side views Z is the vertical axis and X or Y are coming towards me.

Surely this is logical? It would allow me to hover over any point in side view and read off a reliable Z value, with no chance of parallax error (which is what concerns you it seems). The Z value of the insertion point of a symbol, or the base point of an extrude could then be displayed in the OIP.

[Petri]

Static, of course. I'm all too familiar with the three fingers (actually, thumb & two fingers) gesturing: when determining rotation axes in programming, it is the only way to get the values right.

(I've always been able to hover over any point and read off a reliable Z value.)

[boxjoint]

In 2D plan view draw a shape, extrude it. Go to a side view. Now look at the data bar (bottom right of drawing window) and the OIP - they can't decide which way the Y axis is between them:

The data bar pretends the Z axis is the Y axis, while the OIP refers to the Y axis as the 2D plan view Y axis that you originally drew the shape in. The OIP doesn't even try and display the Z axis (it's probably confused, poor thing).

Chris,

Coming back to this topic...

I see what you mean. That is screwy. I think what's happening is that when we switch to a side view, we're still in 2d mode, meaning the 2d selection tool is still active.

Assuming you have extruded a rectangle and are now looking at it in side view, grab the top center point and resize the rectangle upward. We know you are moving it parallel with the Z axis. However, watching the data bar while you are dragging shows the movement along the Y axis. Perfectly logical if we were working with a 2d object, but we're not. But I think VW thinks we ARE working with a 2d object since we are using the 2d tool.

If we change to the 3d selection tool, everything changes. Now the data bar shows the XYZ values correctly, and hovering over a corner point does give us the Z value as Petri pointed out.

Unfortunately, there is no way to use the 3d tool to modify the object by dragging, so we must go back to the 2d selection tool, and the 2d axis labels.

I guess in some ways this is an advantage, as it allows us to use the 2d tool set. For instance, while in side view, we could draw a circle and extrude it. The extrude direction would be perpendicular to that of the previous rectangle.

It sure makes it difficult to know where you are sometimes though. Because, as you mentioned, the axes are static, there should be some indicator that shows our orientation at ALL times. Like the little axis indicator thing that you see when you are using the fly over tool, only better. That thing was improved a version or two ago, but it still isn't nearly as obvious as the one in Sketchup.

[Chris D]

Hmm, I'm not yet persuaded of the merits of the 2D/3D split, and I see it as something of a legacy problem in Vectorworks rather than a design feature.

Regardless, when WE HUMANS draw elevations, we have no trouble having a 2D drawing with an X axis and a Z axis. Indeed the contractor would be very confused if we took our levels from any other axis!

The Front/Right/Back/Left views are only 2D representations of 3D objects. There is no need for VW to pretend that the Z axis is the Y axis just to enable the use of 2D tools.

[boxjoint]

Chris,

I didn't mean to sound like I was defending the current setup. I was just "thinking out loud" while I tried to understand it.

I completely agree with you that the visible axes should have no bearing on the use of the 2d toolset.

Your last sentence says it all.