SAVED VIEWS vs VIEWPORTS (You too?)

[BLINK Design]

I feel this is a very important topic. I hope that others add their views regardng the differences between VP's and SAVED VIEWS, particular those that used VW before VP's.

Historically, I have used SAVED VIEWS to draw and compose, but with the advent of VP's, these are, at least theoretically, used for composing final sheets. You cannot draw in a viewport but you cann ANNOTATE which is another issue altogether.

The advantages of a VP's, in my opinion, are the ability to change the scale (the only way to place a 1/4" Floor Plan on a 1/16" Site Plan for example without converting the plan to 2D). VP's are also essential for presentation and rendered views which in my mind is why VP's were invented. VW though intends for VP's to be used now for all final sheet compositions and warns you NOT to use both SAVED VIEWS and VP's in the same file.

In theory, you build a model and extract details by zooming in on aspects of the model, setting the rendering tab and scale appropriately and annotating the cropped viewport. If you are hyper line weight conscious as I am this does not work. Weighted lines are available with the ADVANCED Tab, but this means that the lines weights of the model must be considered as these will later be lines weights for plans and details too with a sliding % scale rather than manual control.

I am still of the school to convert all elevations and sections to 2D after cutting the model and taking advantage of the precision cuts and 'elevation beyond' information that this method offers.

My issues:

REGISTRATION: Historically, you draw plans on top of each other so the different levels regsiter perfectly. The NAVIGATION Palette empowered this process tremendously but is available only in the SAVED VIEW mode. If I turn on another Viewport to achieve floor to floor registration, I must return to the SAVED VIEW (LAYER) to edit it so I might as well register the SAVED VIEW and be done with it and have the confidence to know that it will not move. Back and Forth, Back and forth! VP's in this instance seem redundant.

VIEWPORT POSITION: VP's are indepdent of the original model in scale and with graphics, but NOT with position. If you move the original model on a DESIGN LAYER, this relocates the object within a viewport which is maddening. Depending on how far it it moved, it might vanish outside of the cropped are which you find an hour later. I am wondering if "DON'T SAVE" solves this having read other user comments?

DISAPPEARING VIEWPORTS: I suspect this is why users are warned not to use VP's and SAVED VIEWS in the same file, but quite often when selecting a SAVED SHEET, the VIEWPORTS are invisible. This is solved by remembering which DESIGN LAYERS are turned on and selecting them in the pull down or returning to the SAVED SHEET and selecting the SAVED SHEET again, sometimes several times!

VIEWPORT ANNOTATIONS: I would rather use dimension classes rather than ANNOTATIONS such as Dims-FIRST, Dims-SECOND. Why? You cannot see annotations while working on the DESIGN LAYER and any way you slice it, the DESIGN Layer is where you build your design. This is true for notes and symbols as well. These often overlap when you can't see the dims and must open an annotated viewport to see if they align or not. It's much easier to turn on a class or turn off a class. Back and forth, back and forth!

DETAILS: I personally do not recommend using VP's for details. These must fit into preassigned rectangular areas typically which means they must be composed WHILE they are being designed to a scale! I suppose you can include the border in the VP, but you cannot change the scale, or the border changes scale too! Assuming you are NOT annotating the details, the details are already complete in the SAVED VIEW. Simply set up several layers at different scales to accommodate them. Viewporting details is therefore redundant.

EXPORTING: VP's at times shift from a registered position once exported to a .dwg format. Any reason why?

Edited June 7, 2007 by Blink

[Dieter @ DWorks]

do you really hate vp???? they are the best!

well, this is how i work:

i use saved views to go to a state i want, for example if i want to go to level +2 and want only the walls, floors and dims to be visible, so i can work on it withouth seeing other things.

That's also the purpose of saved views, they only set the layer and class visibility, the active layer and class, and the zoom scale. they don't do anything else.

all the presentation layers have vp for showing the model. all other things that belong to a presentation like the drawing border etc... are also on these layers. the presentation layers are actually your paper where you print on, and that's the purpose of them.

you actually draw 1:1 (although you can set the scale of a design layer), the scale of the design layer is just the way you want to see you drawing. and in comination with view linethickness, you'll see if the thicknesses are wright for that scale.

the whole thing is: you draw you model in design layers 1:1. you can draw it with as much details as you want. then when you want to print it, you go to presentation layers and adjust you paper there for how you want it to look. this involves vp.

THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN COMPARE SAVED VIEWS WITH VIEWPORTS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOTALY DIFFERENT AND ARE USED FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES!

Edited June 7, 2007 by someonenamedlink

[gScott]

view ports are tremendously useful for me.

the only downside is that viewports get

the active class when they are created,

and this can cause them to disappear when

used in conjunction with saved sheets,

particularly on old jobs brought in from

earlier versions with old saved views.

SHEET LAYERS:

to get around this i still use saved views

to load viewports with all the correct classes

turned on.

DESIGN LAYERS:

i use saved views all the time for work-in-progress,

eg only walls on ground floor, or

only walls + electrical on first floor, etc.

this lets you cut through all the detail to get

a neat working environment...

which i suppose is also the point of the task

manager, if only i could remember where that

worksheet is stored with all the settings

to modify for my workflow...

[BLINK Design]

If I was not clear I am specifically referring to construction drawings. I too use Saved Views as a working environment and I generally name them according to the sheet where the information will ultimately be printed (IF ONLY TO FIND THE DATA). A-1.0 PLANS for example.

The issues of things disappearing, export issues a well naming need solutions. I'm not railign against VP's. I feel like I'm reading a book and must wonder if the next page will actually be visible and centered! I must be able to quickly find and quickly edit a sheet that remains as I last left it. I suppose it's how I work. I design and compose at the same time.

Drawing at 1:1. Never thought of that one. Somehow I think that would be a line weight nightmare.

NAMING: - Why when you choose SHEET LAYERS in the ORGANIZATION Dialogue are VIEWPORTS not an available list? Also, when I see the list of VP's, I can't make heads or tails of which one is which and Preview does not respond.

Viewports should default to VP-(Name) so they can share the same name as the primary layer or data or detail they are sourced to. This is a concern for projects that require many sheets and many layers and classes.

[atari2600]

To me, saved views and viewports are totally different. I don't see how to directly compare them. The way I see it, viewports are physical "things", which happen to look at other things in a file. Saved views are simply scripts to allow me to see things in a certain ways. Moreover, I like creating saved views being in the annonation mode of certain view ports, so I don't have to find the right sheet layer, and double click in the certain viewport. Prior to vp's, it was imperative to use saved views to navigate through a drawing file. Fortunately, the introduction of the viewport has allowed us to distinguish between what we are designing, and what we are printing on the paper.

I also agree that details are better kept in the design layers only. What we have done now is have a separate layer set a particular scale called "details", where the details and the notes/dims are all placed. This way we can simply viewport them. Being that they are details, adjusting the scale is not needed.

I do agree that there can be improvements to the viewports however (like making them "smarter"), and an autonaming feature would be pretty cool, if it allowed us enough flexability in setting it up.

What would be neat would be to have a "history" pallate, which keeps track of only our navigating through the file (like a web browser.) And have it be separate from the undo pallate.

[gScott]

blink,

are your VP's actually disappearing

or are they created on a class that

is sometimes OFF? i.e. the viewport

itself takes the active class when

created...

this is what used to happen to me

until i started using the "viewport

in none class" plugin by katerina

panagiotakis from vectordepot.com

[Dieter @ DWorks]

The issues of things disappearing, export issues a well naming need solutions. I'm not railign against VP's. I feel like I'm reading a book and must wonder if the next page will actually be visible and centered!

never have a problem with that, just make a class for your vieuwports and turn it on.

Drawing at 1:1. Never thought of that one. Somehow I think that would be a line weight nightmare.

we do it all, drawing on 1:1! we only show things on different layers, that's where lineweights and the options in vp to scale them comes in. basicly we set the lineweight for printing on 1:50. but when we want to print on 1/100, we must use the half of the lineweight.

NAMING: - Why when you choose SHEET LAYERS in the ORGANIZATION Dialogue are VIEWPORTS not an available list? Also, when I see the list of VP's, I can't make heads or tails of which one is which and Preview does not respond.

Viewports should default to VP-(Name) so they can share the same name as the primary layer or data or detail they are sourced to. This is a concern for projects that require many sheets and many layers and classes.

in the organization dialogue you can see a list of all viewports! you'll need to name them the way you can know which one is wich when you see their name, i always name them VP-name+info

just think it through