Mark McCay-Moran

Here, here. I'll have to second that thought! I have a current thread in "general" section (Help with VW vs ACAD)in which I'm weighing the cost of upgrading from VWA/RW 2008 to 2012 and I specifically ask if in the 4 versions I've missed my list my pet peeves has been addressed. Among them: --applying hatches to 3d objects (why? textures are not the same (my drwgs still get plotted in B&W) and its way, way too cumbersome to fake in the annotation VP) --polygon by lasso within VPs (why? so I can quickly, although tediously get elevation line wts to look right, ie profiling. yep that's oldschool, but its what makes my drwgs look better than an engineer's working in ACAD) --visual control of live sections. --Better door and window control (mainly to simply have them look right in plan view, elevation, and section) and... the big kicker-- can I finally use VW as a 2d/3d tool rather than have this convoluted workflow to address one workaround after another!!! BTW I use the classes to control visuals control extensively and rely heavily on Class overrides in VP's. Sounds like this workaround, er, I mean, workflow is still an accepted methodology. One tip is create one good elevation with overrides in place, foreground/backgrnd render options selected, then duplicate and reset view for each add'l elev needed (still req's a lot of "touching up" IMHO). I'm sure a lot of you have used Sketch-Up. How can such a basic program define line wts by edge so easily and effectively, while we continue slogging through the workarounds.

Thanks for that, Kevin. Greatly appreciated! Yep ACad/Mac will require new computer, but at least I've already got the program. Part of what I was trying to get was some feedback from those who may have used or played around with ACad/Mac especially since I do architecture, and draw in 3d, and the only ACad available for mac is the vanilla flavor. Also I was looking for VWA '08 functionality on Lion, not VW2012. Any thoughts?

Thanks for that guys Yes, windows is getting better and better. At some point it may even be so "mac-like" that I consider using it. However... Couple of items that would be truly useful if anybody could comment: Will vwa/rw run on Lion if I ditch the upgrade and get a new computer for now? For me VW has always been a program of "workarounds" especially in 3d. Are new wall tools, Dr/wnd objects, workflow really better? What about live sections? I know that's relative, but please give me your take. Some previous pet peeves that I'm hoping have been addressed--use of polygon by lasso in VPs (for profiling elevations), hatching objects in 3d, cantankerous notes library, sectional control (visual), stability, file size. Thoughts about AutoCad for Mac? Has anybody used? Weak? I'd rather be moving toward Revit for Mac if it was available. I'm not looking to switch to ArchiCad (I've actually been down that road already). I don't want to switch to AutoCad, although its a decision I'm in the process of evaluating. what I want to do is upgrade VW, but won't be able to run it on my current computers. Anybody have some insight into some of the items mentioned above? Particularly the status of VW in its current form and usability of ACAD for Mac 2012? Thanks again, mmm

I will, thanks for that. Amusing to see where this thread has gone, didn't mean to start a Mac vs. Wnds thing. FYI I will stick with Mac for numerous reasons, not least of which are: continuity btwn home/office/music studio, ease of use (kids included), coordination with other apple products (iPhone, iPods, iPad) and apps, and...being a designer, quality of product and design. That said... Couple of items that would be truly useful if anybody could comment: Will vwa/rw run on Lion if I ditch the upgrade and get a new computer for now? For me VW has always been a program of "workarounds" especially in 3d. Are new wall tools, Dr/wnd objects, workflow really better? What about live sections? I know that's relative, but please give me your take. Some previous pet peeves that I'm hoping have been addressed--use of polygon by lasso in VPs (for profiling elevations), hatching objects in 3d, cantankerous notes library, sectional control (visual), stability, file size. Thoughts about AutoCad for Mac? Has anybody used? Weak? I'd rather be moving toward Revit for Mac if it was available.

So I guess one burning question is... Is VWA 90% better than is was in 2008? As I stated earlier, there are always improvements to features, but is it that dramatically different, and if so, will 20years of MC/VW use not be of any value?

Going by memory with current pricing. My bad. ACAD for Mac is 4999.00 USD, Archicad 15 is 4250.00, but VWA/RW is almost 2900.00. Ouch. an additional seat is 2400.00 USD. Whoa. So in 8 years VWA/RW has gone up over 90%, ArchiCad up around 25% and ACAD down almost 45%. I was quoted 950.00 to upgrade to subscription to VWA/RW 2011 from 2008. I'm a little scared now to call and find out what I'll have to put up for 2012. This will definately influence my decision, especially if I have to spend more on my software package than the computer to run it, which has never happened in the 14 years I've been in business for myself. Going back to hand drawing sounds like less of a joke now.

3) Go back to hand drawing... Had to chuckle at this, yes, I'm old enough to have started out hand drafting. Interestingly, the only part of my business that it thriving right now is hand drawn renderings! My clients are mostly other architects who can't/don't hand illustrate that are tired of the "look" of computer renderings. Full-circle. I think its more like they haven't seen a lot of mac-heads jumping on the wagon, and are willing to give away some goods in order to gain exposure. Presumably, once I'm down the rabbit hole... Herein lies my problem: either route requires a new computer to run new apps. Also, its my feeling the new upgrades are always claiming "better," not always coming through. I have tested '09 and '10 (actually used '09 pretty extensively at another office that I freelanced for)and was not overly impressed. Not the quantum jumps in workflow or tools as in previous upgrades with a lot of improvement taking place "under the hood." 2011 and 2012 require too much horsepower to adequately test with current computers. Statistically I'm not sure VW has gained marketshare, but I may be wrong. Its cost has certainly grown compared to both Archicad and ACAD. (I paid about 1500.00 USD for VWA+RW plus 500.00 for addl seats (I had 5 at one point)less than 8 years ago--when ArchiCad was 3500.00 and ACAD was 8,000. Now same runs 2600.00 USD while Archicad is 4250.00 and ACAD/mac is 5000.00) Nope, never have, never will.And while I'm relatively happy with DWG translations, I don't like this "openDWG" game the the cad industry is forced to play. I also don't like making excuses for the translation issues that do come up and tap-dancing around ACAD users needs. I'll need to look at what the ACAD licence is worth on the open market, that might play as a viable solution! Thanks so much for the imput!

I'm doing some serious soul searching here, looking for advice. Long time user (MiniCad+ 3.1, yeah that's since about 1989!) but economy has slammed my business and as a result haven't upgraded since VWA/RW 2008. Also haven't upgraded my computers, which is beginning to cause problems. I'm a comitted Mac guy. The cost of BOTH a VW upgrade plus a decent computer to run it is prohibitive to me right now. The twist: after years of avoiding ACAD like the plague and telling anybody who would listen that AutoDesk made an overpriced, unituitive product (that forced professionals to use it because it had become the "default" program in the industry), I'm now looking to use it myself! Why you ask? Because I was given a copy free of charge from a client who's a VP at Autodesk. $5000 retail! Granted, it's not ACad Architect or Revit but... 1) It would allow me to buy a new computer with my limited funds desparately needed on many fronts including but not limited to CAD. And, 2) when looking for freelance work in architecture (or even a 9-5 job) I'm constantly reminded of the ACAD dominance in the field. I've read a bit about the ACAD for Mac shortcomings, and I know folks here are generally VW disciples (as am I) but I'm hoping for some unbiased help in weighing the factors. Any info would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for slogging through this long post!

Actually, Peter generally if a window grouping can't be factory ganged and transported, virtually all mfgrs will send individual units (or pairs)for field ganging. Can be awkward to install, but that's my problem (I'm a builder too). But the real point is... NNAs solution won't deal with lack of shim space between ganged windows, won't build "frame" properly in ganged windows with Custom mullion options, can't calc properly for useful info in a window schedule, draws overlapping trim elements for adjacent windows poorly (requiring me to extrude exterior trim for all window groupings for int/ext elevation and section views), and a bunch of other annoying issues I won't take the time to list... How common are ganged or grouped windows? Like I said, depends on local vernacular, arch style, etc. But I would say fairly common to very common (especially in "historic" areas double/single hung windows predominate and contemporary clients want more "uninterrupted" glass area than wnd mfgrs can give in one unit. For my work, I haven't done a project in recent years without at least one ganged or grouped window, with MOST jobs using a grouping in 30-60% of the total fenestration design. Even if its a more of a problem for me than most, I'm curious how other architects are addressing this (especially in elevation views and on schedules, as I can usually get the plan close enough). cheers, mmm

I'll bump this just once... Still having problems. This file, and others are a problem on all of my machines, so for now I'm ruling out vid card/driver, amt of RAM, etc. Any ideas? Thanks, cheers, mmm

This works, yes. But now shows up as one item in Window Schedule as "custom" with overall dims. You also have to play with the mullion settings which are unsatisfactory. ie: ganged windows vs. adjacent windows with trimmer/kings btween. Ganged and/or adjacent windows are common in our local vernacular and frustrating to deal with in VW.

Hi y'all, Having trouble with building elevation VPs of my model. When using background render set to OpenGL with shadows, content "disappears" for lack of better word. I can see elevation in wireframe, but won't render in OpenGL or RW HiddenLine(I mean VP goes blank and all I can see is info in Annotations). Once this happens, the VP is dust. No amount of jostling will get it back. When updating VP, computer chugs a bit then says "rendered" (absence of candystripe border). But its still gone. If orig VP is created with OpenGL no shadows background and hidden line foreground in sketch mode (my usual method except I like the look of shadows especially for prelim work), VP works fine. I find when I modify to OpenGL with shadows, VP blank again and have to start over. May be related: odd shadows are being cast in the VP that dont show up in DL. Cant afford to add info in Annotations to a VP that becomes corrupted, too much work to recreate. Please any ideas welcome. TIA, mmm

Thanks for the response, that makes sense. I'll try this file on another machine and see what happens. I agree in concept, unfortunately render times are so long with FQRW that its impacting office workflow. Also, graphically I like the shadows generated in openGL for non-photorealistic orthagonal drwgs. Maybe I should be asking, "what custom RW settings will give me sharp uniform shadows (without "fall off" gradients) and not compromise speed?" Any takers? Thanks again, mmm

In using Open GL render with shadows option I'm getting some strange results in SLVPs. Almost like there are some hidden elements casting shadows on elevation views in these VPs. when traveling back to the DL from the SLVP the odd shadows are gone! I've checked the class/layer overrides for any clues--nothing. Creating a new VP from the DL of the same model, same file yields more odd shadows, only in different places??? I finally found a couple of clues: when zoomed in close on the DL model in elevation view I can see some unwanted shadows cast on a wall with no shadows. This is the really strange part: in this zoomed view if I use the pan (hand) tool, the shadows actually move!(not while panning, but they redraw in a slightly different config after finishing operation) The pan tool does nothing to the model, light, or other objects in the drawing, so how can it change the shadows cast? Back to the SLVPs. By accident I discovered that the errant shadows disappear if I change the scale of the VP from 1/4" to 1/8". What the heck? How could this be possible? Again, this shouldn't do anything to the model, lighting, VP overrides, other elements etc. Bug? In the past I've used open GL a lot and I like how it remains rendered when rotating models etc. Now I'm using the Textures and Shadow options in open GL mode so maybe this has been an issue for a while and I wasn't aware of it. I've restarted VW and rebooted machine to no avail. Any suggestions? Using VWA 2008 SP3. TIA, cheers, mmm

Sorry, don't follow. I am using many VPs to view the model, but how does this figure in my vertical alignment issues? thanks, mmm