jfitch

Now running SP2. All fundamental problems still exist, exactly as before. Is anything every going to be done about this?

Funny, I just uploaded it again and when I try to download it to check, I get an error 404. Bug in the bulletin board?

I will post the file again. I am aware of the "feature" you are talking about and have learned to live with it. I don't think this is the same thing: it already has a corner vertex between the line being edited and the corner radius. The corner does not change radius, it moves.

Katie, did this get listed as a bug? Still have heard nothing from tech.

Do I guess by the silence that no one can verify? Or that it is a known problem?

I have problems when I edit polylines in drawings created in VW12 and before. Not all polylines, but some of them. Is this a known bug? An example is enclosed. Double click on the polyline to enter editing mode. Then click on the center handle of the bottom line. As soon as you click on it, the upper left corner arc vertex shifts to the right. And it stays there if you do any editing or not. You can move the corner vertices at the ends of the bottom line, no problem. But if you move it by its center, problems. Many polylines don't exhibit this behavior, some do. I have not been able to narrow it further. Intel Mac, 10.4.10, VW2008 SP1.

I am worried that unless this is verified as a bug and a tracking number assigned, it will be ignored. Any news on it?

The original file is attached to the first post in the other thread. However I have attached another here (Test.vwx, the same one but without the holes, which are inconsequential). This demonstrates both the export and import problems. If you export it and then re-import it, you will see very obvious problems. Not so obvious, but still serious problems can be observed by importing it into a 3rd party CAD package. I don't have a version of AutoCad that will let me analyze the shapes, but OneCNC reports that the shape now has 17 objects, none of them correct. The simple 1/4" radius corner arcs have been broken into three arcs of radii that vary from corner to corner. The top line has been exported as an arc or spline of about 6400 inches radius. The bottom line is still a line, but the length is incorrect. By eye, it looks like nearly the same shape, but dimensionally it is off in nearly every detail. As I stated before, if I decompose the shape before exporting, it imports back into VW, and into OneCNC correctly. There is also a second file (Test2, the one I tried to post at the top of this thread) which has the minimum number of vertices to see the import problem. It does not appear to show the export problems though (the exported file imports into OneCNC correctly).

This is also an annoying bug, but not the same thing? I have observed (and sworn at) the behavior you are talking about, and the only work around I have found for it is inserting intermediate corner vertices as you describe. However, in my example, that is not the problem, there are line segments between the corner radius arcs and the polyline bezier splines making up the curved ends, and plenty of room for the corner arcs to exist on their own. Might be related but I think they are two different bugs.

Yes, this problem has been around for a long time - at least since version 10, perhaps longer? I have found a workaround for the simple polyline I posted: decompose the polyline first, then export the decomposed parts. This exports the components correctly, at least in a couple of simple test cases. Re-importing them also works correctly (though they must then be re-composed if you want the polyline back). Importing to a couple of 3rd party CAD/CAM apps appeared to work correctly as well. It isn't a great workaround for complex stuff, how do you know which things to decompose? However, since dxf doesn't seem to know much about the association anyway, maybe it works always. In the first case I posted, the single polyline is split by the export into 5 lines and about 13 arcs and splines, none of them dimensionally correct. If you decompose the outline, you should get exactly 12 objects: 6 lines, 4 arcs of 1/4 radius, and two bezier polyline splines. Exporting the decomposed parts gets you exactly that in dxf. Why the export of the original polyline goes to all the trouble to split the corner arcs into three arcs of various radii (none of them correct) is a mystery. A bigger mystery is why the top line is made into an arc of large radius. I have no idea why the exported polyline (converted to all the arcs and splines) gets re-imported so incorrectly. Most other CAD packages, including eDrawings and AutoDesk's own DWGViewer import correctly what was exported (albeit an incorrect shape due to the export problems). I am using this to drive CNC machine tools which are accurate to a few ten-thousandths of an inch. Needless to say, the wild approximations made by the export produce unwanted results. I can't imagine why this isn't considered a priority 1 bug.

OK, here is a very simple shape, freshly drawn, which demonstrates the import problem. All you need to do is export it as .dxf, then import it again. You will see a substantial change in shape. Someone with access to the code should be able to exhaustively test this, there are only 5 vertices in the polyline. It is not corrupt, it is not a trick, it is not in the slightest bit unusual, and yet the error is profound. However this one does not show the export problems which also exist. In the file posted in the original thread, the top line is exported as a curve with finite radius - at least that is how it is interpreted by a couple of 3rd party programs. Also the corner arcs are broken up into several curves of differing radii, leading to significant dimensional errors.

Downloaded and installed SP1, same bugs still exist. The silence on this one is deafening. Submitted as a bug, emailed tech@, no response.

I just installed my update of VW 2008, hoping it might help the rather basic export/import problems reported before. No joy - same bugs exactly. I submitted the bug again through bug report, but I'm not sure if that is a black hole. This is a very basic problem. If I can't depend on the export or import of a simple polygon with 5 vertices (2 simple radius, 1 bezier, two end points) then certainly anything even slightly complicated would be suspect. In fact all you seem to need to have is a bezier vertex between two corner vertices to have a serious problem as in the enclosed file. OOPS - I guess I can't enclose the file because 2008 file extensions (.vwx) aren't allowed on the forum!!!

Katie, The file is in the opening post to the thread. All you have to do is export it in .dxf, then import the just-exported file back into Vectorworks. The result is obviously different than what you started with. Vectorworks 12.5.2 (but anything from about V10 on will do it, and maybe before). Macintosh version. OSX 10.4.10 (but that doesn't make any difference). I don't need the file back, just would like to know in 2008 if you export and then import, do you get something like the same thing? Seems like you should.... Edit: I should add that both the export and import do odd things. The export for example exports the top line as a spline with slight curvature, should be a line. Other radii are changed slightly for no good reason. The import mangles the shape substantially so as to be barely recognizable. Other software will import the exported file more or less correctly (at least it is recognizable).

Well, I sent the files along with what information I had to tech support, including my telephone number, email address, and a request to be contacted. No response to date. I just ordered 2008 upgrade, wondering if it will be any better? Maybe someone can try that file in 2008 and see.

Katie, I did that. Some further analysis suggests that the main problem was due to the straight line across the top of the shape getting exported as a spline with slight curvature, not a straight line as was drawn. But also the corners, which were drawn as simple 0.25 radius vertices seem to have been exported as a variety of lines, curves, and splines. On this drawing there is no reason to use anything except lines, arcs, and circles - all of which seem to be primitives in DXF. The representation in DXF can be exact. I wonder why all the second guessing at the shape? How do I attach additional information to the bug report? No number was issued for it.

It is surprising to me that this could happen for so long (since V10?). When viewed in eDrawings does it have any anomalies or discontinuities? The problem I am having in this particular drawing is in the upper left hand corner, when imported into OneCNC. I am cutting this shape from stainless steel on a CNC milling machine, it goes crazy at that corner.

I have had more than a few problems with the dxf translator. Generally these reveal themselves when exporting from Vectorworks and then importing to another CAD program. In fact there are many cases in which Vectorworks cannot read its own export properly. If there is some way around these problems I would love to hear about them. Take for example the enclosed file. Export it as dxf or dwg, in 2000 or 2005 versions (probably others too, haven't checked them all). Re-import it. The result is quite obviously different. It is a simple shape with just a few simple vertices. When the exported file is imported elsewhere (in my case, a CAM program called OneCNC) there are discontinuities and other strange artifacts.

Per the emailed link, I downloaded V2 of the 12.5.1 update. The installer behaves strangely, asking for the admin password first, but then not doing anything. Double clicking on it again it proceeds as expected, but gives an error at 14 files to go: access denied creating file. Dismissing the dialog box causes the installer to become unresponsive, and it must be forced to quit. It seems to leave the original version operational, though preferences are gone. Is this cure worse than the disease?