Vectorworks abandoning perpetual licences

[Christiaan]

1 hour ago, ndavison said:

increase the number of updates we provide annually allowing us to take some of the pressure off of delivering as many updates in the initial version relase each year so that we are able to focus on quality and stability for each new feature released and provide them once they are ready during the version cycle. 

This is the key. I wouldn't underestimate this change. I've seen hints of this already starting to happen in the beta cycle; a willingness to hold back and get features right before pushing them out. And now they don't have to wait until the following year to push them out.

[Kevin Allen]

17 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

This is the key. I wouldn't underestimate this change. I've seen hints of this already starting to happen in the beta cycle; a willingness to hold back and get features right before pushing them out. And now they don't have to wait until the following year to push them out.

 

I hope so, but assumes the file format stays the same for a long time. Photoshop has been able to make this work.

[Christiaan]

49 minutes ago, Kevin Allen said:

I hope so, but assumes the file format stays the same for a long time. Photoshop has been able to make this work.

Not necessarily. For instance a feature might be started during one cycle, with any needed file format changes incorporated into the main release, but then it may still need a little work before it's ready for primetime, but not need any further file format changes, in which case they can finish it off and release it mid-cycle.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Christiaan

[E|FA]

3 hours ago, ndavison said:

focus on quality and stability for each new feature

 

Some of us would prefer that you prioritize focus on quality and stability of existing features.  I would think that a happy user base would be a big benefit for marketing to attract new customers and retaining existing ones.  See: 

 

[Mark Aceto]

From the mass email I just received:

 

 

Now, riddle me this:

1. Will the discounted perpetual license cost of 2023 be 25% less than 2022?
2. Or will the discounted perpetual license cost of 2023 be 10% less than 2022 because 2023 will be 15% more?
3. Or will the discounted perpetual license cost of 2023 be 0% less than 2022 because 2023 will be 25% more?
4. Or will it be something totally different?

I'll bet a taco it's #3

 

There's still time for a third mass email to clear up the confusion caused by the first two... 

 

[mjm]

Here's how the morning started @ work:

• open VWX file from Finder w/ VWX not running. File opens normally, @ sheet layer to be worked on today.
• select only VP on SL
• open viz palette, select then batch-edit a number of lights to boost intensity
• click update to update the sheet layer

VWX immediately became unresponsive.

What happened? Do I wait a while? Should I force-quit immediately? Wait, when's the last backup, compared to working file?

Productivity = 0.00

 

So—restart…

 

While it's restarting I start thinking: Oh right, gonna either have to keep what ever the last Perpetual Lic I own -and the machine it's running on (both in perfect health), for as we know, OSes move on cruelly abandoning all who came before- to access archived files, or spend time / money converting everything to DXF + PDF, so at least something is preserved in usable states. Just trying to imagine losing all access to all my files. Profoundly disturbing thought. A disempowering feeling. As long as I pay you, I can continue to access my intellectual property, do I have that right? Wonder how long VWX Viewer will remain free? How's the community feeling about Viewer as a useful tool? Asking for a friend.

[DBrown]

3 hours ago, Kevin Allen said:

 

I hope so, but assumes the file format stays the same for a long time. Photoshop has been able to make this work.

Photoshop has a bigger user base, Vectorworks use is dwinling in my country, so I don't see how things are going to be from now on

[Ross Harris]

Archicad is about to go from $550 per month to $1100 per month in this neck of the woods... Revit is holding at $495 per month with VW $330 per month... still the best bang for buck.

[zoomer]

28 minutes ago, Ross Harris said:

Archicad is about to go from $550 per month to $1100 per month in this neck of the woods...

 

WTH ?

 

In 2010 I tested all Nemetschek Apps when I 100% settled into Macs,

would have preferred Allplan but Windows only,

Could not really get how VW works and loved how fast I got familiar with Archicad.

But as I do not really do real Architecture and basically was looking for a CAD(/BIM)

Modeler for my 3D Apps - I went with VW for the cost advantage.

And learned to love it.

But at that times Archicad Upgrade cost was nearly about $1000 per year only ....

(the same reason I left Microstation in 2004)

 

If your price range ist true, I wouldn't even have looked at Archicad.

(And I can't really stand that most CAD vendors, beside VW do not really

allow to show their prices. And that basically all of CAD's secret ask-for- an-offer

prices range at the same cartel level.

 

I own VW since quiet a few years and my VSS fee is quite a bit lower, but my

Bricscad BIM Maintenance is pretty much the same level.

OK, the times for Freelancers are getting harder and I may have to give up my

redundant App choice soon for CAD and 3D and Renderers.

But such price increases in such times when it looks like our electricity and gas

prices tripple may force me to harder decisions for what I really need and what

is worth, necessary or effective.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by zoomer

[Christiaan]

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

And I can't really stand that most CAD vendors, beside VW do not really allow to show their prices. And that basically all of CAD's secret ask-for- an-offer prices range at the same cartel level.

Ugh I hate this kind of thing with a vengeance.

[rDesign]

I wonder what the switch to subscriptions and the promise of more frequent updates will do to SP updates for the previous version release. Previously, I believe that Vw supported / updated the last version along with the current version.

 

Since not everyone immediately upgrades to the current version, hopefully this will continue to be the case.

[Thomas_]

On 8/6/2022 at 1:20 PM, Mark Aceto said:

"VW costs this much... BW costs this much... CC costs this much... The other guys cost this much... Well, we're combining Architect, Landmark, Braceworks, ConnectCAD... and starting today, you can have all of that for $99/month."

And by the way, would have had me most likely start paying for a second license right then, instead of determining if I need to invest that money elsewhere, so likely to result in MORE income for the product, instead of potentially less.  I probably still would have kept my perpetual license and SS in place of course, but this would be easier for me to justify purchasing an additional license for my employees than the current state of things.

 

Yes it feels weird sometimes to realize that charging less can lead to more revenue, but at the smaller end of the scale, in this case it very well might IMO.

[Thomas_]

On 8/9/2022 at 10:28 AM, jeff prince said:

They will need to keep the theater and events people happy, they might be the only source of new customers after this fiasco 😞

See my first post here, this is my world and I just don't see that being the case, some of them were already offput by the handling of COVID, many of us work with tight incomes so many people wouldn't upgrade every year as a result, often doing anywhere between 3-5 year cycles because of price.

[Mark Aceto]

23 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

From the mass email I just received:

 

 

Now, riddle me this:

1. Will the discounted perpetual license cost of 2023 be 25% less than 2022?
2. Or will the discounted perpetual license cost of 2023 be 10% less than 2022 because 2023 will be 15% more?
3. Or will the discounted perpetual license cost of 2023 be 0% less than 2022 because 2023 will be 25% more?
4. Or will it be something totally different?

I'll bet a taco it's #3

 

There's still time for a third mass email to clear up the confusion caused by the first two... 

 

Thanks to some people that are smarter than me, I think I understand the discount next steps:

1. Now through Sep 13, purchase v2022 perpetual license for 25% off
2. v2023 is released on Sep 13
3. v2023 VSS is free for one year until it's time to renew VSS in Aug / Sep 2024

Is that correct?

[ndavison]

17 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

Thanks to some people that are smarter than me, I think I understand the discount next steps:

1. Now through Sep 13, purchase v2022 perpetual license for 25% off
2. v2023 is released on Sep 13
3. v2023 VSS is free for one year until it's time to renew VSS in Aug / Sep 2024

Is that correct?

 

@Mark Aceto Yes. 

 

The offer is a bit different depending on if you are a current Service Select customer or purchasing Service Select for the first time. 

 

For New Service Select customers:

• Now through Sep 13, purchase a new v2022 perpetual license for 25% off
• v2023 is released on Sep 14
• v2023 Service Select is free for one year until it's time to renew Sep 1 2024

 

For Exsisting Service Select customers:

• Now through Sep 13, purchase a new v2022 perpetual license for 25% off
• v2023 is released on Sep 14
• receive Service Select for free up until your next renewal date (so no pro-rated payment needed), pay the cost of the added license on your next renewal. 

If you have a Version 2019-2021 license you can also upgrade it to v2022 for 25% off and then fall into one of the catgories above. 

 

At the time version 2023 is released we will have a price increase on perpetual licenses for the remainder of the year, which makes now the best time to purchase given the 25% discount, Service Select discount and the lower cost.

 

Nicole

 

[rDesign]

Personally, I am finding with each verbal clarification from Vw on the upcoming changes I'm left a little more confused. A FAQ page with several tables outlining the different scenarios and dates would be very helpful. (Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee yet).

 

@ndavison Is the above response only applicable if you are purchasing additional licenses for either a new or existing VSS subscription?

 

If you are a current VSS subscriber and are not purchasing any additional licenses, I am unclear whether the the part about "we will have a price increase on perpetual licenses for the remainder of the year" applies.

 

Thank you for any clarification.

[line-weight]

I think in the end, if you don't want to be shoved onto a subscription licence, there aren't any choices available to you. The cost simply depends on your status at the moment (current VSS, lapsed VSS or no VSS). So I've given up trying to decode the "offers" and have simply emailed my rep asking what the damage is going to be.

Edited August 12, 2022 by line-weight

[ndavison]

1 hour ago, rDesign said:

If you are a current VSS subscriber and are not purchasing any additional licenses, I am unclear whether the the part about "we will have a price increase on perpetual licenses for the remainder of the year" applies.

 

 

Hi @rDesign - yes, the discount offer and price increase only applies to purchases of new licenses or upgrades of existing licenses. 

 

If you currently own a perpetual license and it is active on Service Select then there is no change or additional action needed. 

 

We have this FAQ page that breaks down the details of the transition: https://www.vectorworks.net/en-US/company/purchasing-policy#faq

 

Kind regards,

Nicole

[rDesign]

@ndavison - Great, thank you for the clarification and the link to the FAQ.

[zoomer]

43 minutes ago, ndavison said:

We have this FAQ page that breaks down the details of the transition:

 

 

OK, also I am not in the target group that would go a Subscription path in any way.

I think you did a great job in dealing with the change for perpetual and or Service Select users.

 

Before January 2023,

- necessary VW Upgrade path, if needed, to be able go to start a Subscription sounds reasonable

- not bothering active VSS users is great

- keeping perpetual licenses in case a VSS is quit after 2023 is good

- adding more licenses option before 2023 at a discount is good

- first year discount to switch (or degrade) your perpetual license to Subscription is ok

- the FAQ page is very good

 

So VW managed the coming transition to subscription in a very good (less hurting) way

for all existing users.

I just wonder about potential new VW users after 2023 will be attracted by the coming

Subscription conditions which are quite a bit different than existing users conditions.

But what do I know. VW will have calculated and estimated what it thinks it is worth.

Fair enough.

 

So I am happy that I think I can go on my VW VSS path for another coming few years

until other larger changes may or may not happen.

This thread helped a lot for calming me down on running to look for alternatives.

 

 

[Sam Jones]

This would be more appropriate to the Vectorscript Forum, but it is not really a coding issue.

How will version numbers be issued under this new regime.  Currently, the new version of VW gets a number version change.  VW 2020 is version 25, and VW 2021 is version 26, and VW 2022 is version 27.  There were also minor version numbers.  VW 2023 will be version 28.  Then what?  There are no longer yearly roll outs of a new version, just constant change.

Many of those of us that create plug-ins need to keep track of version numbers.  How will that work now?

 

[M5d]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:09 PM, ndavison said:

@M5d we do not have plans to end our Service Select maintenance program for perpetual licenses in the short-term, but I can't predict in the long-term how technology and the market will continue to evolve which may influence our course of action. I can assure you, you won't see our Service Select maitenance program disappear in the next 2-3 years. In the short-term our plans are to:

• keep both tracks (exsisting perpetual+Service Select maintenance and focus all new license purchases on Subscription which includes Service Select benefits) 
• continue to develop on all products
• increase the number of updates we provide annually allowing us to take some of the pressure off of delivering as many updates in the initial version relase each year so that we are able to focus on quality and stability for each new feature released and provide them once they are ready during the version cycle. 

 

Thanks for the reply. Clearly the timeframe for decommissioning Service Select is a very different proposition from the “as long as” statement that seems to have populated throughout NV’s communications.

 

It’s easy to see how these statements would be casually observed, your own forum admin was restating it, more or less, directly from the Subscription FAQ header and drop-downs on your purchasing page and as it appeared in your mail-outs . . .

 

 

 

Will this language get corrected, because while it may have nothing to do with NV's right under the letter of your Service Select agreements, it certainly portrays a different (external) intent from your clarification and the action NV will  inevitably take? (just curious)

 

With regard to the ‘short-term’ / ‘long-term’ / ‘short-term’ / ‘I can’t predict’ context of your answer, are we (the user base) meant to be reading the 2-3 year timeframe as your current estimate for decommissioning Service Select?

 

A timeframe would be instructive. I expect just about everyone will be looking at this announcement, doing the numbers, considering the various reasons they were on this platform, its differences and difficulties, where it will sit against the industry standard as a subscription platform in a few years and be evaluating how to navigate the space in-between. Without a timeframe, it’s difficult to plot a course, and your “buy now” promos become a somewhat unquantifiable and speculative proposition as a result.

 

[line-weight]

Another question ... will it remain possible to sell/buy licences between users?

 

VW's policy so far has been quite accommodating of this - there's a formal procedure available to transfer a licence ownership and users can agree a price between themselves.

 

This has perhaps been particularly useful for those who want to increase/decrease their number of licences for limited periods of time.

 

As a single-licence user it's always been in the back of my mind as a potential recoup on the substantial initial purchase price. Should I decide I no longer need my Vectorworks licence (for whatever reason) I can probably sell it on.

 

The change in policy actually takes quite a chunk of "secondhand" value off my licence, because now if I sell it to someone else, they can't use it as a partial trade-in for a future upgrade, which has been possible in the past. All they get (assuming selling a perpetual licence is still allowed) is something that they can use frozen at its current release.

 

(In fact this was my route back into VW, when I first started up on my own. Prior to that, I'd used VW as a salaried employee at the practice I worked for. Initially, when I wasn't even sure if I was going to be self employed long term, and only had a couple of very small jobs earning me money, I bought a couple-of-years out of date VW licence second hand, and then a bit later I paid VW to update it to a current version)

Edited August 15, 2022 by line-weight

[E|FA]

The Service Select "as long as" you maintain it statement makes it sound like that is entirely within the users' control.  However, if they stop offering it, you can't maintain it, so this is entirely outside of the perpetual license owner's control.  It seems reasonable to ask VW commit to a minimum timeline for maintaining Service Select to allow users to assess the long term expense involved. 

[zoomer]

^ What shell I say.

Of course even mentioning going subscription in the future is a loss of trust.

Like when your girlfriend suddenly says, if you go on cleaning the household

(as you did the last 20 years) nothing will change between us. But if you stop

I will charge a rent for you living in MY house.

Something is different from then on.

 

But VW can't guarantee you an existing of a VSS for the next 300 years.

Maybe in the near future Nemetschek decides to sell VW to Meta or Adobe

for one reason, there comes a new CEO, VW goes bankrupt, VW gets OSS, ....

 

So beside the feel of loss of trust and security, I have the optimism that it will

go on as it is for another few years, which is what I prefer.

There is a likeliness that will change one day, but we know there are options.

Edited August 16, 2022 by zoomer