Jump to content

Vectorworks abandoning perpetual licences


Recommended Posts

Given that perpetual licences will be sold until Dec 2022, and VW2023 will presumably appear around September, I guess VW2023 will be the last version of Vectorworks you can buy and own. So... let's hope that it's less of a mess than VW2022.

 

I expect I will probably buy it and then sit on VW2023 for some time to see what happens.

 

I assume that buying VW2023 will entitle you to all the SP fixes for a year - or will the whole system change, leaving you with it frozen somewhere around SP2 in January? The FAQ aren't entirely clear about this - it looks like you might have to pay for Service Select to get the SPs?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
12 minutes ago, line-weight said:

I assume that buying VW2023 will entitle you to all the SP fixes for a year - or will the whole system change, leaving you with it frozen somewhere around SP2 in January? The FAQ aren't entirely clear about this - it looks like you might have to pay for Service Select to get the SPs?

 

I also think there are still lots of details to be answered.

 

 

For an example, Modo also offers (optional) subscription beside Maintenance.

And it is also kind or a "rolling" release now with 3 releases per year.

But for leaving their Service Select counterpart you may also get

a perpetual license for the latest release, e.g.  16.2 v0 - but without any

future service packs .... so as you will not get the "stable" 16.2 v2 anymore,

you may prefer using the latest older 16.1 v2 stable release instead.

 

Also my Bricscad is basically a rolling release.

(And thankfully still perpetual + maintenance)

There are also usually 2 major releases per year, like V22.1.xx and later V22.2.xx.

But basically you will not notice the .2 step as there will all the time come newer

releases with bug fixes but also new features if necessary.

The major releases usually do offer a larger step in new features and fixes, but especially

if you participate the Betas it is nearly just a continuous development.

But if you leave maintenance you will get all sub releases and fixes for that major

version, which could also happen until a year or so after the next version's release.

 

So I think there are tons of possibilities that may be more or less comfortable

for individual needs.

  • Like 4
Link to comment

Its not good is it, same as many others, ditched Autodesk, went to Rhino & VW, ditched Adobe, went to Affinity products. It's a commercial driven decision, not quality of product driven. Welcome to the future, or the here and now 🙄, we will survive 👍

  • Like 2
Link to comment
11 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

I don't see why a subscription model is necessary to improve stability, or to increase the frequency of updates.

 

What may be necessary is to increase the price of the product and consequent revenue which I imagine is what this is really about.

 

But how about actually increasing the stability & quality of the product and having faith that users will consequently stump up for new versions? My guess is that VW finds that not everyone wants to pay for the new version each year. I wonder if that's because every single year we get a new version that fails to fix longstanding bugs and usability issues?

 

I'd prefer that the cost of the product went up a bit (to fund more rapid improvements), but it remained the users' choice whether they want to pay for new versions - based on whether the new versions actually offered benefits worth paying for.

Sketchup has gone subscription but improvements are meh at best. I avoid all sub software except my accounts package (which actually does make sense).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
19 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Also, I wonder if this means we're finally getting to the end of different file types for different versions....

No. The file format gets changed because new features require it. Not simply because there's a new version.

Edited by Christiaan
Link to comment
19 hours ago, _James said:

Thought it would be interesting to check out their changelog:

 

July 22 - 1 update

June 22 - 2 updates 

May 22 - 1 update

April 22 - 2 updates

March 22 - 1 update

February 22 - 1 update

January 22 - 2 updates

 

2021 had 17 updates in the year.All a mix of new features, improvements, bug fixes etc. I looked at some of the forum posts showing these updates and they have pretty positive comments from users.

 

If Vectorworks start doing something like this (and the updates are actually good!) I will be impressed.

Of course one of the big advantages Onshape has over Vectorworks is that it's cloud-based. The subscription model works very well with this, but the main reason updates are so smooth is because users don't have to manage the updates, there are far less variables to worry about because the hardware is in the cloud and everybody is on the same version.

Edited by Christiaan
  • Like 2
Link to comment
19 hours ago, jeff prince said:

On a side note, I do not see subscription models leading to better software features

I hope you're wrong, but you might be right. Where I certainly see a better upgrade process is the likes of Onshape, but I think mainly because it's cloud-based. It's just that a subscription model fits very well with cloud-based software.

 

Now if Vectorworks managed to go cloud-based....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
19 hours ago, Samuel Derenboim said:

My question is - why not offer it as an option ? rather than forcing everyone into it? Why does it have to be one or the other?

See my comment about incentives:

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/99556-vectorworks-abandoning-perpetual-licences/#comment-439275

 

If a subscription model is only an option then the incentives for the developer do not change.

Link to comment
19 hours ago, rDesign said:

Really? The motivation to “focus on consistent quality” wasn’t there before?

Yes, I would argue that's the case with an arbitrary annual release cycle. Features get held back from a major release because they're not ready and then they have to wait a whole year before they're released—to keep the marketing department happy—delaying the feature and not allowing the engineers to make a clean break and focus on something else. Or features might get pushed out early before they're ready and stable—because they don't want to wait another year to release it and to keep marketing happy—thereby reducing stability and causing the engineers to have to mop up the problems after release, not allowing them to focus on something else.

Edited by Christiaan
  • Like 2
Link to comment
15 hours ago, line-weight said:

I'm not sure comparisons with Onshape are valid.

 

Doesn't Onshape have a much much bigger userbase and much more resource behind it?

 

And it doesn't have to deal with the quite specific trickiness involved with building design and documentation - which is really quite a different process from product design.

 

I don't think you can conclude that because things work nicely with Onshape's subscription model, these benefits would also be seen in VW simply from a switch in payment model.

I'm not sure any of that matters. If there's anything that invalidates my comparison with Onshape it's that Onshape is also cloud-based. Therefore everybody is on the same version. Everybody is effectively on the same hardware. Users don't have to manage updates. The only variable Onshape really has to worry about is web browsers. The subscription model compliments this very well. Plus they have a free version for non-commercial use.

 

I would love to see Vectorworks go cloud-based but I don't think this switch to subscriptions is evidence of some impending announcement. Otherwise they would just make both announcements at once.

Edited by Christiaan
Link to comment
13 hours ago, zoomer said:

For an example, Modo also offers (optional) subscription beside Maintenance.

And it is also kind or a "rolling" release now with 3 releases per year.

But for leaving their Service Select counterpart you may also get

a perpetual license for the latest release, e.g.  16.2 v0 - but without any

future service packs .... so as you will not get the "stable" 16.2 v2 anymore,

you may prefer using the latest older 16.1 v2 stable release instead.

 

That's a nice compromise.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
15 hours ago, line-weight said:

I'm not sure comparisons with Onshape are valid.

ok..how about this. I'm assuming that a subscription would mean no yearly big releases but rather monthly updates for all so that everyone is on the same version. 

 

IF that is the case...then, this is a major move in simplification for all.  (even w/o any cloud cad stuff)

 

What it will mean for me:

There will be no major tech board discussion that I will need to follow about the pro/cons of this years big release.

Not having to pick a time (lull in work) to schedule an install.

Not taking a few days to install and test then do a batch update to all my vw files.

Not having to store "old vw files" 

Not having to coordinate with 2 other architectural studios when to upgrade. 

 

How much time and headache does this all take?  The current system is problematic. 

 

I'm already experiencing the freedom from such mess with Onshape.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
20 hours ago, jeff prince said:

The notion of continuous release of features might be nice for some, typically the elite technicians and developers keen on keeping you tied to current versioning (ex. Revit), but keeping a staff abreast of the changes and implementing new workflows has significant cost to organizations large and small.  Feature roll out within Vectorworks has already proven challenging enough with changes to materials, data tags, title blocks, plant object, slab/hardscape/landscape area workflows, etc.  

I think this issue is actually made more acute by major release cycles. Instead of rolling all this stuff out at once, forcing users to learn a bunch of new features all in one go, things can be rolled out as and when they're ready, allowing users to learn one or two new features at a time.

Edited by Christiaan
  • Like 3
Link to comment

Spot on @Christiaan. The yearly cycles are a headache precisely because of the number of major features included in a yearly release. If features were spread out over the year, users could focus on learning a new feature for each quater then use that in the next quarter, instead of spending 3quarters of the year learning and trying to implement new featuers/workflows, almost in time for another yearly release with another new set of features or workflows.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
10 minutes ago, twk said:

major features included in a yearly release

I get why this is so...everyone needs to be wowed so they buy next years car...this is an old paradigm.

 

We just need constantly improving cad with the smallest amount of upset to our cad life.

  • Like 2
Link to comment

It is interesting to hear people advocating for cloud or web based vectorworks and the continuous updating of software.   That may be nice for urbanites working in the western world, but….

 

Much of the world where interesting mega projects are happening does not have reliable enough internet or power to facilitate designing in the cloud.  On the other end of the spectrum, a portion of vectorworks users focus on residential architecture and landscapes where designing and presenting in the field or on the road is typical.

 

This past July I have had 6 days of interrupted power or internet due to storms or high temperatures… in urban Phoenix, AZ.  Imagine how things are in less developed areas of the world, like a temporary construction office made out of portables sitting in a middle eastern desert.

 

Cloud reliant processes will kill some people’s ability to use the software, how many?  Who knows.

 

…and then there is the less than stellar Vectorworks technical support on seemingly simple topics… what happens if the whole operation is ‘in da cloud mahn”?  You gotta be smoke’n something if you think that is a recipe for success 😉

Edited by jeff prince
  • Like 4
Link to comment

From the Email:

 

"As a current Service Select member, this email is to notify you of the upcoming changes and reassure you that they do not affect the terms or status of your existing Service Select agreement. As long as you maintain your license(s) under Service Select, you will be able to continue to renew your agreement annually and enjoy the same benefits you do today, including access to new software releases."

 

It seems like, for current Service Select users, the status quo will be maintained. What am I missing or naive about?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
19 hours ago, bc said:

It seems like, for current Service Select users, the status quo will be maintained. What am I missing or naive about?

Correct, you're not missing anything. When you want to add additional licences after 30 Dec is where the changes will kick in. Any additional licences after that will be subscription based.

Edited by Christiaan
  • Like 1
Link to comment
24 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

Correct, you're not missing anything. I think when you want to expand and add additional licences is where the changes will kick in.

I'm curious whether temporarily adding a licence using the monthly rental option is compatible with Service Select. The entertainment industry will be using the monthly rental option for assistants etc. if its affordable.

 

Kevin

  • Like 1
Link to comment
2 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

What concerns me is QA.  Every year VW is released and it's super buggy and not ready for real production.  My studio, my direct colleagues and my students all stay a year behind release schedule - we have just moved over to 2021 for our current project.  I am not confident that smaller release steps all through the year will be good unless things are truly ready for prime time, and lets face it, how can any feature be ready for prime time without lots of real world testing.  So it will be interesting to see where this goes.  I'll be watching and continuing to work well behind the bleeding edge.

^ this is definitely going to be a thing. The proper option is to have a free public beta (like Rhino). If I'm going to be a continuous beta tester I would like a reduced rate (and would happily take one) for being one.

 

Kevin

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...