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Notes Manager / General Notes / Callouts Suggestions


_James

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@Peter W Flint Yes, when I set up my templates  I used the "Pick up sets defaults" setting in the Eyedropper tool. This allowed me to quickly set the preferred defaults for all my commonly used tools. This saves so much time when drafting. You just need to make sure you uncheck this setting when you are finished with it.

image.png.b6d7d9f6a6a3a6c8a99b43ca566d81ca.png

 

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On 5/3/2023 at 12:21 AM, Boh said:

@Peter W Flint Yes, when I set up my templates  I used the "Pick up sets defaults" setting in the Eyedropper tool. This allowed me to quickly set the preferred defaults for all my commonly used tools. This saves so much time when drafting. You just need to make sure you uncheck this setting when you are finished with it.

image.png.b6d7d9f6a6a3a6c8a99b43ca566d81ca.png

 

 

What exactly do you pick up from, and drop on to?

 

Do you have to find an object made by the relevant tool, pick up from here, and drop onto an object made by that tool in the new file? And do this for each tool individually?

 

 

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On 4/27/2023 at 8:36 PM, Boh said:

 That said a save settings function for the notes tool would be good and probably quite easy for vw to implement.

 

I'd much rather it be implemented in the form of letting the tool use styles, rather than adding yet another way to save and recall settings for something, that doesn't apply to other similar objects.

 

Additionally, "load settings" type functionality leaves already created objects frozen in time, rather than letting you update things in bulk and consistently. It's a really backwards way of doing things - we have the "styles" concept - it should be applied to all tools rigorously and with at least a vague sense of urgency. As it is, I'm looking forward to seeing it fully implemented some time around the 22nd or 23rd century AD.

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7 minutes ago, line-weight said:

 

What exactly do you pick up from, and drop on to?

 

Do you have to find an object made by the relevant tool, pick up from here, and drop onto an object made by that tool in the new file? And do this for each tool individually?

 

 

 

It will transfer the settings used to create an object to the tool preferences of the tool used to create that object. So you can create an object + edit the settings for the object to get it exactly the way you want then use Pick Up Sets Defaults to make those settings the default for the tool used to create it. So if you do it in your template file it's a quick + accurate way of getting these kinds of tools set up the way you want them ahead of time. But I'm with you: tools which use styles are preferable.

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43 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

It will transfer the settings used to create an object to the tool preferences of the tool used to create that object. So you can create an object + edit the settings for the object to get it exactly the way you want then use Pick Up Sets Defaults to make those settings the default for the tool used to create it. So if you do it in your template file it's a quick + accurate way of getting these kinds of tools set up the way you want them ahead of time. But I'm with you: tools which use styles are preferable.

That's a slightly weird use of the eyedropper tool - I wonder how we're supposed to find that out.

 

And what are "sets"? Is "pick up sets defaults" a strange shortening of "pick up settings defaults" or something? Just to put an additional obstacle in the path of our understanding.

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9 hours ago, line-weight said:

What exactly do you pick up from, and drop on to?

 

Do you have to find an object made by the relevant tool, pick up from here, and drop onto an object made by that tool in the new file? And do this for each tool individually?

I haven’t done this for a while but as I recall I just went through and made instances of all my commonly used tools for creating objects, adjusted the myriad options for all of them exact how I like, activated the eye dropper tool with the pick up set defaults setting checked and just clicked on each created object. This picks up the settings of the objects and applies them as defaults to the file. No need to drop the settings onto anything. The next time you use a tool the settings should be just how you like them. But only in that file. I don’t know if this works for really complex plug ins like terrain models or space objects but certainly for simpler things like framing members and call-outs, hopefully the general notes tool. I don’t know how you could use the pickup sets defaults to transfer defaults from one file to another. Prob just copy paste the object into a file then run the eye dropper to pick up its settings as default for that file.

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The notes manager was improved a few versions ago so it is actually possible to effectively update notes across a file using a notes database. That said, I agree with @line-weightthat it is a tricky tool to use. Not very intuitive. If feels like it needs to be upscaled and rethought so that can be effectivley and efficiently used across multiple diverse projects.

 

The actual notes database files are very small. It seems to me it would be better if each drawing file had it's own integrated notes resource, and accessed just like any other  resource in the resource manager.

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@Boh I actually enjoy begin able to have a database of notes that spans not only different files, but different versions of Vectorworks.  My notes database is probably only 500 notes, but I know people who have many many thousands of notes.  Having that database fork with every file would be really confusing.

 

A few years ago @The Hamma and I came up with a very cool way of making very large notes databases from an excel file and a script in VW for generating UUIDs.  I should dig that up and post it.  I've forgotten some of the details on how to create it, but I've been using that database for years!

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I can see why some people would want a notes database that spanned several projects but for me it would be much better for it to be a resource tied within a specific file.

 

It already feels a bit dangerous that I can quite easily alter a bunch of notes scattered throughout a file without realising it. The ability to mess up multiple projects in one go (and maybe only realise some time later) - yikes.

 

 

...and it's just quite recently I've realised that the "no undo" issue is rather a significant one.

 

There are other ways of making a big mess too, like making a duplicate file to fork off a design option whilst leaving the previous one intact in case you want to revert to it. You have to remember to make a copy of the notes database too, if you're going to change any of the notes in the drawing, or at least have a thought through strategy of what's going to happen.

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7 minutes ago, line-weight said:

It already feels a bit dangerous that I can quite easily alter a bunch of notes scattered throughout a file without realising it. The ability to mess up multiple projects in one go (and maybe only realise some time later) - yikes.

I've found that if I change a note in a notes database, I'll only be asked if I want to update the notes in the current open file to the linked revised database note. Other files with notes linked to the changed note will not change but just become unlinked.

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9 hours ago, Boh said:

I've found that if I change a note in a notes database, I'll only be asked if I want to update the notes in the current open file to the linked revised database note. Other files with notes linked to the changed note will not change but just become unlinked.

That could be a problem in itself though, if it's not what you wanted to happen. Actually sometimes this happens within a file, when I press the wrong button somewhere. Then you don't lose the text of those notes that become unlinked but you do lose the ability to make changes to all of them in one go ... And if you haven't realised what's happened you might think you've made an edit when it hasn't actually propagated to all instances.

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Agreed. Lately I’ve only been making project/file specific notes databases for keynotes and using the project notes database to keep the keynotes uniform.

For standard call-outs I might initially draw the note from a master notes database but thereafter would tend to use a worksheet for global editing of standard call-outs.

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Here's an illustration of the multiple traps set for you when you just want to create a new note.

 

In my case, I very often create a new note by duplicating an existing one then editing it. In the example here, I've got 4 notes already and I just want to create "note 5".

 

[yes, I know everything below is basically user error - and technically the popups and so on warn me what's going to happen - but I'm talking about real humans using things in real life]

 

Trap no. 1: You change the text but don't press the "add note to database" button:

 

Trap 2: You remember to press "add note to database" but forget to change the "note description" to something different.

 

Trap 3: You remember to press "add to database" and you remember to change the "note description" but you forget to choose the right note in the upper pane when you come back to the main dialogue:

 

Finally here's what happens if you make the error in trap no. 3, return to your drawing and immediately realise you've messed up, and try to do an "undo":

 

 

The problem is not just that these errors are very easy to make (especially no. 3) but that once you've made them, and/or try and rectify things, it all gets incredibly confusing very quickly.

 

In my last example above, showing what happens after an undo, it's already a bit confusing what's happened, with my 5 numbered notes with all instances visible in one place. But once you've got notes all over a drawing, with more complex text, maybe some where the first part of the text is the same or similar, if you're not very careful it all spirals into a catastrophe and potentially computer keyboards being thrown out the window.

 

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On 11/16/2023 at 10:40 PM, line-weight said:

I can see why some people would want a notes database that spanned several projects but for me it would be much better for it to be a resource tied within a specific file.

Definitely. 

 

For us I would see it it working like any other resource that we share office-wide through the resource manager. The 'standard' set is kept for all to use and then it can be modified for a specific project. Just like we keep symbols of dining tables in standard sizes but if a client has a specific one in mind we'll alter it to match. The key point being that if we edit the symbol in one file it doesn't alter every dining table on every project!

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On 11/17/2023 at 12:52 PM, line-weight said:

Here's an illustration of the multiple traps set for you when you just want to create a new note.

 

In my case, I very often create a new note by duplicating an existing one then editing it. In the example here, I've got 4 notes already and I just want to create "note 5".

 

[yes, I know everything below is basically user error - and technically the popups and so on warn me what's going to happen - but I'm talking about real humans using things in real life]

 

Trap no. 1: You change the text but don't press the "add note to database" button:

 

Screen Recording 2023-11-17 at 12.30.11.mov 1.76 MB · 0 downloads

 

Trap 2: You remember to press "add note to database" but forget to change the "note description" to something different.

 

Screen Recording 2023-11-17 at 12.31.24.mov 2.03 MB · 0 downloads

 

Trap 3: You remember to press "add to database" and you remember to change the "note description" but you forget to choose the right note in the upper pane when you come back to the main dialogue:

 

Screen Recording 2023-11-17 at 12.32.38.mov 2.78 MB · 0 downloads

 

Finally here's what happens if you make the error in trap no. 3, return to your drawing and immediately realise you've messed up, and try to do an "undo":

 

Screen Recording 2023-11-17 at 12.34.53.mov 3.61 MB · 0 downloads

 

 

The problem is not just that these errors are very easy to make (especially no. 3) but that once you've made them, and/or try and rectify things, it all gets incredibly confusing very quickly.

 

In my last example above, showing what happens after an undo, it's already a bit confusing what's happened, with my 5 numbered notes with all instances visible in one place. But once you've got notes all over a drawing, with more complex text, maybe some where the first part of the text is the same or similar, if you're not very careful it all spirals into a catastrophe and potentially computer keyboards being thrown out the window.

 

 

really good illustration of many the issues

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