Notes Manager / General Notes / Callouts Suggestions

[_James]

I'm starting to use the Notes Manager more and more, building up a good database of standard notes. In doing so I've come up with the following that the Notes Manger could do better to make it more intuitive.

 

1. Notes Manager - Remember the last Database File used

Every time I go to edit a callout I need select the correct database every time. It's only two clicks, but two clicks across hundreds of callouts soon adds up.

 

2. Notes Manager - Make it easier to add notes to the database.

Currently, if there is a callout already typed that I want to add to the template I need to:

1. double click to open the "Edit Callout" window

2. click "add note to database"

3. select the database

4.select the section of the database.

*Importantly here there is no provision to add a new section to the database!* There really should be here, as otherwise you need to go back out and essentially start again

5. Press ok

6. Select database again.

7. Select section again.

8. Select note again.

9. Press ok.

 

I think that steps 6-9 could be eliminated. Once you have added the note to the database, when you return to the "edit callout" window, it should be referencing the note from the database.

 

3. Notes Manager - Have Databases as a Resource

This would make it much more intuitive to select/copy databases from the Resource Manager, where I would imagine most offices share office-wide resources. These would allow admins to easily keep the General Notes updated, and allows users to easily copy old project notes and adapt them to new ones.

 

4. Notes Manager - Get rid of note descriptions

I don't really see the point in these, especially if the default is the first 42 characters of the note itself. Why not just have the note itself? It would make the UI a bit clearer that way.

 

5. General Notes - Add Multiple Notes

It should be possible to add multiple notes to the General Notes pane without having the "Add Note" dialog keep opening and closing.

This has also been asked for already here and on Request #2 here

 

 

[rDesign]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:35 AM, _James said:

1. Notes Manager - Remember the last Database File used

Every time I go to edit a callout I need select the correct database every time. It's only two clicks, but two clicks across hundreds of callouts soon adds up.

 

^^^^ This one is a real pain. Having to reselect the correct database EVERY time you want to place a keynote is not how this should work. 

[Boh]

I agree with this and have upvoted.

On 7/26/2022 at 4:35 AM, _James said:

3. Notes Manager - Have Databases as a Resource

This would make it much more intuitive to select/copy databases from the Resource Manager, where I would imagine most offices share office-wide resources. These would allow admins to easily keep the General Notes updated, and allows users to easily copy old project notes and adapt them to new ones.

For this one though updating of a note in a database can mean that any notes in unopened files linked to the database will lose the link. The exception is ff a file is open when you update the database then you can choose to update the notes linked to the changed database note.

 

It would be good if there was a way to not lose the link when an admin updates a note database whilst providing a notification that notes in a file might have been updated. Not sure how that would work though.

 

My system is to have a "Master Notes Database" and also Project specific notes Databases. I might start off drawing notes from the Master Database but inevitably the notes need tweaking. At that point I create a project database and add any customised notes to the project database. If later revisions are required to a note which is repeated across a file this can be done globally via the project notes database - I use this a lot for keeping keynotes updated.

 

 

[designit]

Has anyone had a problem with the notes generated from the notes where you set up your notes, crop them onto the sheet sapce and then go back a few days later and it is liek the font size or sapcing of the notes changes - ie/ on closing the document you have set up your cropped VP on the sheet spaces, then when you open the text seems to take up the same width, but be longer.  However, you haven't changed the body text size or spacing.  The text length no longer fits and individual notes appear to overlap, you then double clock on the text in the design layer and magically it no longer overlaps but is longer so doesn't fit into your crops ont he sheet sapce anymore?  It is driving us insane.

[_James]

On 8/13/2022 at 8:23 AM, Boh said:

updating of a note in a database can mean that any notes in unopened files linked to the database will lose the link.

This is a big problem.

 

For me, the whole point of having a centralised database (project or otherwise) is to quickly deal with changes that happen through a project, particularly important now with supply chain issues meaning there are many material changes due to so many things being on long lead times or out of stock. It should be able to handle a change in the database and change, or warn you that there are changes and ask you to confirm them on opening the file.

[_James]

Another couple of things to add to this (I can't figure out how to edit my post to add it to the list).

 

6. Better management of Notes

Our database quickly became unwieldy. It would be good to have some kind of manager where you could see where notes are used and if any in the database are completely unused. A purge option would then be good to clear out outdated notes that are no longer relevant. I have seen the "Reconcile Notes" window which is pretty good, but it seems a bit tucked away. In my view this should be part of the Notes Manager.

 

3. Notes Manager - Have Databases as a Resource Continued..

Also just wanted to reiterate how much of a drag the constant detachment of the database from the file is. I think there should be the option to have the notes stored within the file so there is no link to a distant file somewhere which in my experience is not very resilient.

[jtempleton]

Amen. 

 

That is all. 

 

 

[_James]

Every single callout I double click to edit I get this - surely this is not working as designed? I can click ok, go into the "edit callout" window and access the database by selecting it from the "Database:" dropdown at the top, it just adds 3 annoying extra clicks to every edit.

 

Is it related to having it stored on a cloud drive perhaps? Does anyone know who the notes person is at VW?

[_James]

Ok now it's broken completely and I get the error "Cannot open database for reading". Get stuck in this error message continually popping up and in the end I have to force quit.

 

Vectorworks, why do you make it so hard to love you?

[Christiaan]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:35 PM, _James said:

1. Notes Manager - Remember the last Database File used

Every time I go to edit a callout I need select the correct database every time. It's only two clicks, but two clicks across hundreds of callouts soon adds up.

Pretty sure it doesn't have to be like this. Are your notes copied and pasted from somewhere else?

 

Have you familiarised yourself with the Text > Reconcile Notes... command? Very useful command that I only learnt about recently.

[Christiaan]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:35 PM, _James said:

4. Notes Manager - Get rid of note descriptions

I don't really see the point in these, especially if the default is the first 42 characters of the note itself. Why not just have the note itself? It would make the UI a bit clearer that way.

I put classification codes in the Note Description. So my Uniclass notes look like this:

 

[_James]

12 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

Are your notes copied and pasted from somewhere else?

No, a brand new database created in that drawing file - interesting that yours doesn't behave in this way. Do you mind me asking how you set yours up?

[Pat Stanford]

Do you have the 279Notes.xml file set to be stored locally or only in the cloud?  I think that it has to be stored locally. Putting it on the cloud so it can sync between machines and backup is great, but for most VW things you need to have a local copy of the file.

[Christiaan]

1 hour ago, _James said:

No, a brand new database created in that drawing file - interesting that yours doesn't behave in this way. Do you mind me asking how you set yours up?

I'm not sure what might be different in my setup. The Notes Database is one of those features that I wish they'd just thrown out and started afresh, because it has so many idiosyncrasies, and I don't use every day, so I each time I use it I need to reappraise myself of all the idiosyncrasies.

 

One issue might be your Google Drive settings. You don't have selective sync active do you?

Edited Thursday at 06:39 PM by Christiaan

[Christiaan]

21 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

Do you have the 279Notes.xml file set to be stored locally or only in the cloud?  I think that it has to be stored locally. Putting it on the cloud so it can sync between machines and backup is great, but for most VW things you need to have a local copy of the file.

We sync our notes databases and don't have this problem.

 

Edit: sorry, I misunderstood you Pat. You're saying the same thing as me. One needs to make sure Database Note files are fully synced.

Edited Thursday at 06:41 PM by Christiaan

[Christiaan]

Not sure if it will help James, but this thread is worth a read:

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/68628-notes-database-project-sharing-relative-path-and-dropbox/

 

Edited Thursday at 06:39 PM by Christiaan

[_James]

14 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

Do you have the 279Notes.xml file set to be stored locally or only in the cloud?

Stored in the cloud. If stored locally, will this not cause issues for anyone else who opens the file? It's not a project sharing file and we're not a huge office, but we always have more than one person working on a project.

 

@Christiaan - I'm not sure about selective sync but fairly recently the googledrive location has switched (I believe something to do with MacOS?) and I haven't yet fully understood all the implications, it has caused some problems already! Thats for the other thread, will take a look.

 

In the end my notes database appeared to get corrupted somehow (I could open the file in TextEdit and it was completely blank) so I just gave up. I really like the idea of the Notes Database but it's so difficult to like in practice. There is no way I could get the rest of the office on board with it in it's current state.

[Christiaan]

7 hours ago, _James said:

I'm not sure about selective sync but fairly recently the googledrive location has switched (I believe something to do with MacOS?) and I haven't yet fully understood all the implications, it has caused some problems already! Thats for the other thread, will take a look.

This could well be the problem. Dropbox was recently updated in the same fashion to accord with Apple's updated File Provider API.

 

One implication of this update is that file sharing folders get moved to ~/Library/CloudStorage. So if you created the notes database before the update, I will bet a pretty penny that your issues are directly related to this. 

 

Have you given the Text > Reconcile Notes... command a go? I think it might fix your problem.

 

As an aside, another implication—at least for Dropbox users—is that it doesn't currently support LAN Sync.

 

 

[Pat Stanford]

8 hours ago, _James said:

Stored in the cloud. If stored locally, will this not cause issues for anyone else who opens the file? It's not a project sharing file and we're not a huge office, but we always have more than one person working on a project.

DropBox (and similar services) usually offer two ways of storing files. They can be stored only in the cloud so that every time you need to work with them you need an internet connection and they have to be downloaded and then uploaded after you make changes. Alternatively, they can be "smart synced" (terminology is mine. Different services use different names for the same basic functionality). A synced file is stored both in the cloud and on the local machine. If changes are made to the file it is then uploaded back to the cloud. Other users who have the same file synced will then download the file in the background so that when they need the file they have the most up to date version. One of the other nice things about smart sync is that the upload does not have to happen immediately. If you lose your internet connection for some reason the syncing will resume when you get back on line.

 

I recommend that all VW files you are using are set to be synced and not used directly from the cloud.

 

HTH

[_James]

Thanks Pat and Christiaan. I think you're right that it's likely to be a google drive/storage issue.

 

With that aside though, I still think the notes manager could use some updating/modernising. It still feels like a potentially great tool is being held back a little

[Christiaan]

Certainly don't disagree with you there.