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Why is shaded render in a viewport so bad?


Bruce Kieffer

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On 7/21/2022 at 7:27 AM, Bruce Kieffer said:

I think if I want a really good render in a viewport, then I have to use Renderworks as the background render.

I just tested using Renderworks as the background render. Horrible there and horrible in the design layer. It must have something to do with my using color on the objects rather than textures. Shaded looks good in my design layer. Next I will try a design layer viewport.

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2 hours ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

It must have something to do with my using color on the objects rather than textures.


I would bet this is the reason your viewports are looking bad: Use proper RW textures on your 3D objects and it will look better in both Shaded and Renderworks.

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2 minutes ago, rDesign said:


I would bet this is the reason your viewports are looking bad: Use proper RW textures on your 3D objects and it will look better in both Shaded and Renderworks.

I agree. My Shaded design layers are fine. For what I am doing RW is way overkill. I'll report back after I test the DLVP.

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@Bruce Kieffer I see two problems with your file, but I think the big one is just that you are running up against resolution issues.

 

Your overall object length is 119 1/2 inches. You are displaying it at 1:12 (1" = 1') scale. The "page size" of the sheathing is 9 9/16".  At 300 dpi this give you about 2869 pixels.  The recessed holes have a size of 5/16". The "page size" is about 1/32" (0.0265") . At 300 dpi this give you about 8 pixels. If you zoom in on one of those holes, you can actually count the 8 pixels across and up and down.

 

You just have to wide of range of sizes for the scale you are using and the DPI you are running. That is why it looks better with higher DPI. You can't reasonable render 2 concentric circles in a 64 pixel (8x8) grid.

 

If you change the viewport Background Render Settings to turn off Anti-Aliasing, and set your Thickness of your drawn edges to about 3 pixels that will "fix" the edges of the sheets and you will basically get black dots for the holes.

 

But I think there is another problem with your drawing also. If I try to edit the Solid Subtraction that is one of the sheets, I lose the holes. I get the sheet, but the cutting holes are not present. When I exit the subtraction, the holes are no longer present.  I don't know what is up with that but be careful.

 

If you really want the holes to show as holes in the sheet layer viewport, you are going to have to go to a higher DPI for the Sheet Layer.

 

HTH

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Agree with @Pat Stanford - it looks bad mainly because you are zooming in so much, just like a JPEG image will look bad if you zoom right in to the pixels.

 

If I set it so that it displays approximately "life size" on my screen (ie the size it would be if printed at 100% onto a piece of paper), you don't see any of the pixelation.

 

However

 

This gives me an opportunity to go on about a bug in VW that often causes me trouble and which no one ever seems interested in: the result of a render on a sheet layer depends on what zoom you are viewing the sheet layer in, when you render the viewport. For example, here's what the top right corner looks like if I render the viewport while zoomed out quite a bit (then zoom in to look at it):

 

912071509_Screenshot2022-07-26at20_02_56.thumb.jpg.04dd1223267311da8bd18513f4b344f9.jpg

 

And here's what it looks like if I redo the render while zoomed in:

 

1532386666_Screenshot2022-07-26at20_03_07.thumb.jpg.a91a1b2c9501052ec21f5042681dff8a.jpg

 

Edited by line-weight
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Two thoughts:

 

I generally find that the rasterized Shaded Edges and the vector Hidden Line edges are for different purposes and should rarely be used simultaneously. Since you have the nice Hidden Line edges I don't see a reason to also have the Shaded edges since they're causing most of the visual messiness. Here's what it looks like with Shaded edges removed, still at 300 dpi:

 

808906555_ScreenShot2022-07-26at12_03_08PM.thumb.png.faf7552b50f8d617236f6b3162e41a75.png

 

(I know this was already mentioned above, but I'm just going through the steps as well).

 

 

Second, remember you can zoom in infinitely on a computer screen. We're examining these tiny circles way more closely than they will end up on a printed page.

 

If you want to be able to zoom in more and have it still look good, higher DPI is the way to go, or format for a larger page size.

 

All else is working as expected and looking fine to me.

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1 hour ago, Pat Stanford said:

@Bruce Kieffer I see two problems with your file, but I think the big one is just that you are running up against resolution issues.

 

Your overall object length is 119 1/2 inches. You are displaying it at 1:12 (1" = 1') scale. The "page size" of the sheathing is 9 9/16".  At 300 dpi this give you about 2869 pixels.  The recessed holes have a size of 5/16". The "page size" is about 1/32" (0.0265") . At 300 dpi this give you about 8 pixels. If you zoom in on one of those holes, you can actually count the 8 pixels across and up and down.

 

You just have to wide of range of sizes for the scale you are using and the DPI you are running. That is why it looks better with higher DPI. You can't reasonable render 2 concentric circles in a 64 pixel (8x8) grid.

 

If you change the viewport Background Render Settings to turn off Anti-Aliasing, and set your Thickness of your drawn edges to about 3 pixels that will "fix" the edges of the sheets and you will basically get black dots for the holes.

 

But I think there is another problem with your drawing also. If I try to edit the Solid Subtraction that is one of the sheets, I lose the holes. I get the sheet, but the cutting holes are not present. When I exit the subtraction, the holes are no longer present.  I don't know what is up with that but be careful.

 

If you really want the holes to show as holes in the sheet layer viewport, you are going to have to go to a higher DPI for the Sheet Layer.

 

HTH

 

The file I posted is a stripped down version of my file, but it shows the pixellated viewport that same as I see with my full version file. The dimension of my components are the dimensions they need to be. I can't change them to accommodate Vectorworks rendering better. I suppose I need to realize that a sheet layer is used for printing, and therefor it needs to be a certain DPI to work with a printer. I also assume the Shaded in a design layer is adjusted for screen resolution which is far greater than a printer's resolution. I think that is the answer to my question. I guess I just need to accept that and live with it. It does not affect my work, I just wish it looked better.

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7 hours ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

I suppose I need to realize that a sheet layer is used for printing, and therefor it needs to be a certain DPI to work with a printer. I also assume the Shaded in a design layer is adjusted for screen resolution which is far greater than a printer's resolution. I think that is the answer to my question. I guess I just need to accept that and live with it. It does not affect my work, I just wish it looked better.

 

Are you looking for the sheet layer to look the same as the design layer while you're working on it? You can always crank up the sheet layer DPI while you're working and then reset it and re-render the viewports before creating PDFs. My example is a screen shot of the sheet layer with the DPI set to 1000. I've also turned on Zoom Line Thickness and turned off edges in the background Shaded rendering.

 

Kevin

 

1714259075_ScreenShot2022-07-26at8_05_17PM.thumb.png.cd9489878cde2c0dd49efee9b287e480.png

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2 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

 

Are you looking for the sheet layer to look the same as the design layer while you're working on it? You can always crank up the sheet layer DPI while you're working and then reset it and re-render the viewports before creating PDFs. My example is a screen shot of the sheet layer with the DPI set to 1000. I've also turned on Zoom Line Thickness and turned off edges in the background Shaded rendering.

 

Kevin

 

1714259075_ScreenShot2022-07-26at8_05_17PM.thumb.png.cd9489878cde2c0dd49efee9b287e480.png

I did try that and it works, but it slows things down significantly. I've come to realize that the appearance of the VP on the SL indicates what the print out will look like. That's fine with me.

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