Dumb Question about Z height and ruler in front view

[Mark Aceto]

Any idea why my ruler 0 is not lined up with Z: 0 ?

 

I feel like I'm missing something super embarrassing... 

 

For context:

• Center of sphere = 0
• Top of Slab = 0

 

[Kevin Allen]

I have always found those rulers to be strictly decorative.

[Mark Aceto]

I'll be asking this question again every six months because it will never make sense to me.

[Jonathan Pickup]

Hi Mark,

do you have a few layers in your file, and what are the layer settings?

 

[Mark Aceto]

28 minutes ago, Jonathan Pickup said:

Hi Mark,

do you have a few layers in your file, and what are the layer settings?

 

2 layers set to 0" layer height

[Jesse Cogswell]

I did some tests and think I figured it out.  Open up a new file and draw a 3D object (like an extrude).  If you go to a front view, you'll see that the 0' ruler mark lines up properly.  However, if you set a user origin, the ruler seems to no longer properly align in orthographic views.  If you reset your user origin back to the internal origin, it lines up correctly again.  There's likely a bug with the user origin (as per usual) and the ruler not updating properly.

[Mark Aceto]

12 hours ago, Jesse Cogswell said:

I did some tests and think I figured it out.  Open up a new file and draw a 3D object (like an extrude).  If you go to a front view, you'll see that the 0' ruler mark lines up properly.  However, if you set a user origin, the ruler seems to no longer properly align in orthographic views.  If you reset your user origin back to the internal origin, it lines up correctly again.  There's likely a bug with the user origin (as per usual) and the ruler not updating properly.

 

So, in your test, drawing the extrude reset the user origin?

[Jesse Cogswell]

Nope.  The extrude was just used to reference 0'-0" elevation.  The user origin was set using Tools - Origin - User Origin.

 

Here's some screenshots with an example:

 

Initial setup with a 6' extrude with bottom Z at 0'-0":

 

Front view.  Rulers properly match up:

 

Setting User Origin to upper left corner of extrude:

 

Front view.  Z-Axis ruler no longer matches proper elevation:

 

Reset User Origin to Internal Origin:

 

Z-Axis ruler properly showing elevation again:

 

The user origin is a tricky thing on the coding side of Vectorworks.  ALL of the scripting commands reference the Internal Origin, with a proper command for getting the user origin being added in 2016.  Before then, you had to get the user origin using document preference variables and recalculate them to drawing units (the preference variable would be in millimeters), so there was a decent room for error.  After I started scripting things, I became VERY cognizant of where my Internal Origin is and very rarely use User Origins.  I suspect that the Z-axis ruler has a bug where its not properly calculating when a User Origin is different than the Internal Origin.  Which I find very interesting as the User Origin has no Z-axis setting at all.

[Mark Aceto]

I haven't changed the user origin but I have imported a DWG, so I wonder if this default setting is the issue (also having major deja vu):

 

[Mark Aceto]

Here's the DWG model that I'm importing, and I need to align TOS with Z:0

 

[zoomer]

This Setting will move the User Origin automatically for you !

 

To a, what I think, relatively arbitrary position, just read from the

DWG geometries bounding box center, which has no meaning.

 

But at least this way the DWG will be centered on VW Origin for

best precision and/but you will still work in "world" coordinates

(Which I never want. I want 0/0/0 centered at my building grid !)

 

 

But if VW has a problem with Rulers and switching Element positions ....

I would say this is a bug.

 

[zoomer]

1 minute ago, Mark Aceto said:

Here's the DWG model that I'm importing, and I need to align TOS with Z:0

 

 

 

Looks like you are in a perspective mode.

In this case the look of your view could be plausible that it sits correct in Z.

 

But switch to an orthographic Side View, to be able to see if the top of floor

is really at Z=0.00

[Tom W.]

In 2022 the rulers were removed from non-orthogonal 3D views. Perhaps they should only display in orthogonal views when the User Origin is coincident with the Internal Origin. In a georeferenced file the Y ruler is pretty meaningless in a front/side view. As is the X axis too except I suppose in Front view...?

[Mark Aceto]

14 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

 

Looks like you are in a perspective mode.

In this case the look of your view could be plausible that it sits correct in Z.

 

But switch to an orthographic Side View, to be able to see if the top of floor

is really at Z=0.00

 

I did that so it would be easier for y'all to see. Z is not really at 0.

[Mark Aceto]

OK, changing this setting fixed it:

Here's the result that verifies it:

• Hemi is at 0
• 2D poly is at 0 (Layer Pane; Layer Height)

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

Thanks, everyone, for helping me figure out how what the culprit was. That was a pretty big deal for this workflow.

[lauripit]

So to put it simple: this is just a bug. Or if not a bug then totally irrational function.

I would find it very useful if the Y-ruler would show me the Z-coordinates in the side view. It's strange that the Y-ruler is messed in the side view when using user origin since it has nothing to do with Z-coordinates.

 

Anyway, this was driving me mad since I thought that I was doing something wrong but it was just a bug. What a relief... Hope they fix this asap.