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MVR export always sets fixture beam and field angle to 25deg


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VWX2022 SP3.1:

I have a drawing containing a selection of Source Fours with different lens tubes fitted (19, 36, 50 etc) using the standard resource symbols.

In the drawing, Beam Angle, Field Angle, Beam Angle 2 and Field Angle 2 were automatically set appropriately.

 

However, the MVR export says the Beam and Field angle is always 25 degrees.

 

I don't see anywhere in the MVR GeneralSceneDescription that's specifying the beam angle, the only place seems to be in the generated "Custom@Light Instr ETC Source 4 LED2DS XXdeg.gdtf".

That Custom@*.gdtf is always saying "25" for BeamAngle and FieldAngle, regardless of the fixture symbol or my custom settings.

 

Can this please be fixed? It makes MVR almost useless for transferring rig information.

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Actually, it's worse than that. It seems that Vectorworks exports exactly the same light source and beam information for every fixture:

 

This section appears to be exactly the same in every "Custom@" GDTF exported by Vectorworks:

 

Quote

 

<Beam BeamAngle="25.000000" BeamRadius="0.150000" BeamType="Wash" ColorRenderingIndex="100" ColorTemperature="6000.000000" FieldAngle="25.000000" LampType="Discharge" LuminousFlux="10000.000000" Model="Default Lamp" Name="Lamp" Position="{1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000}{0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,0.000000}{0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000}{0,0,0,1}" PowerConsumption="1000.000000" RectangleRatio="1.777700" ThrowRatio="1.000000"/>


 

Source Four, Source Four LED, Robe Robin BMFL Blade, Arri Skypanel S360-C - all the same!

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

When there is no GDTF assigned to the fixture, Vectorworks exports a generic placeholder using default info. In order to have the fixture exported with the proper GDTF you have to assign a GDTF file to the fixture. Vectorworks currently does not do this automatically.

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It would be appreciated if you could add some information to the VWX MVR export dialog stating what actually is going to be exported from a given drawing.

 

Otherwise users are going to be very disappointed when they find that so much of the data they entered into their drawing vanished - or changed.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

The Fixture type pane of the MVR export dialogue tells you what GDTF files (and the assigned DMX modes) will be included in the export.

If an entry in the GDTF name column starts with 'Custom@' it shows that the light has not been assigned a GDTF fixture or fixture mode.

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It appears that the Beam and Field angles entered always ignored when exporting an MVR.

 

If I used a GDTF, I always get the "default" values from the GDTF.

If there is no GDTF for my fixture, (as is almost always the case), then I get 25deg no matter what.

 

This feels very broken.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

You do not have any GDTF files in the Vectorworks file resources, which means they will not be included in the MVR

 

To be able to export an MVR with valid GDTF's, the GDTF has to first be imported into your active files resources using the import GDTF command (located in File>import), once its in your active file resources you then use the GDTF Fixture dropdown in the Lighting device properties to select the desired GDTF and the GDTF fixture mode to assign the mode.  This will link the Spotlight lighting device to the GDTF and enable it to be correctly included when exporting and MVR.

 

To obtain GDTF files you will need to download them from the GDTF share website. Personally what I have done is download the complete share and use it to create my own custom GDTF library in my workgroup library folder. This way I only have to import the fixtures once and can then use the right click import option in the resource manager to bring the GDTF's into my active file as needed

 

If the share doesn't have the fixtures you want then you can either create them yourself using the GDTF builder or send a request to the manufacturer to have them do so, I think the GDTF website has a standard format email that you can use for this.

 

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Posted (edited)

That workflow is genuinely unusable.

  • Nobody is going to swap out millions of fixtures across all their existing drawings for a different symbol.
  • To a first approximation, 100% of fixtures in common use do not yet have a proper GDTF. The majority never will.
  • The Vectorworks 2022 Resource Library does not appear to contain any GDTF fixtures at all. This is the primary (and in most cases only) source of fixture symbols for Vectorworks Spotlight users.

Capture and Cast Wysiwyg both generate custom GDTF files containing the data it knows about the fixture when exporting to MVR.
While the GDTF they generate don't contain much DMX slot info so would not be used to control the fixture in a lighting console, it is sufficient for the user to match up to a "real" fixture within the receiving software, and for the receiving software to configure the user's choice to match the configuration within Capture.

 

That is how it must work if MVR is to be a useful form of interchange.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, are you saying that Vectorworks is deliberately throwing away all that information?

Edited by Richard1
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
2 hours ago, Richard1 said:

Nobody is going to swap out millions of fixtures across all their existing drawings for a different symbol.

Please reread  my previous post, you have to link an imported GDTF file to the currently used Spotlight symbol to be able to use it as part of an MVR export, in a similar way to how you have to assign a DMX mode or Fixture type in the lights properties. You do not need to swap out fixtures.

 

2 hours ago, Richard1 said:

Capture and Cast Wysiwyg both generate custom GDTF files containing the data it knows about the fixture when exporting to MVR.

Neither Wysiwyg nor Capture fully support GDTF files, this is why in Wysiwyg you have to map the GDTF to a Wysiwyg symbol/personality at import for example.
They both do not export a full/complete GDTF, instead they use place holder geometry and only include basic DMX patch, mode, fixture Id, type/name and location data as  that is the only data that the MVR file format can document without a full GDTF being present for the fixture.
Which means that the resulting MVR cannot be used to automatically set up a compatible console or other receiving software, without the user having to manually re-patch/configure/replace all the fixture data.

The primary goal of MVR and GDTF is to make it unnecessary to have to manually map any data in the receiving software, this should be completely automatic. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Richard1 said:

To a first approximation, 100% of fixtures in common use do not yet have a proper GDTF.

Sadly it is taking longer than the GDTF group had hoped to create  GDTF's for all the existing fixtures available and in use around the world today. This process is starting to speed up and more manufacturers are getting involved but there are some of manufacturers that will likely never produce GDTF's for their products. It takes time to establish a new standard and have it fully accepted by our industry, for example DMX took 10 or 15 years to be fully accepted by the whole industry, hopefully GDTF won't take as long.

 

 

2 hours ago, Richard1 said:

The Vectorworks 2022 Resource Library does not appear to contain any GDTF fixtures at all. This is the primary (and in most cases only) source of fixture symbols for Vectorworks Spotlight users.

This is something we need to improve upon, we are looking at several options to make GDTF's more accessible directly in Spotlight without having to manually run the import command. 
There are several other area's of the MVR and GDTF workflow that we will be improving over time, the most recent update was adding full support for the new 1.2 DIN spec, which meant adding GLTF (and GLB) file support to Vectorworks

 

2 hours ago, Richard1 said:

For the avoidance of doubt, are you saying that Vectorworks is deliberately throwing away all that information?

Spotlight exports all the Data that is supported by the MVR standard, however there is lots of things that are not supported like worksheets, exporting the contents of data records attached to objects that are not GDTF based since these are not part of the MVR standard and every other receiving software uses different standards for data transfer.
If no GDTF is present for a fixture MVR will document a range of data including fixture number, dmx patch (mode and address), location and orientation and colour. There is some custom data that is included in the MVR that can be read by Vision but this is not necessarily usable by any other software.

Data like shutter cuts, beam angles and so on are not part of the MVR standard and are normally configured in the receiving software based on the fixtures GDTF profile or the internal personality assigned if the receiving software doesn't fully support GDTF's

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

What are you exporting to? A console?

You don't need to swap any fixtures out, simply right click a lighting device and choose 'select devices by instrument type' from the contextual menu, Then assign the GDTF file from the OIP. I can do this in less than 5 clicks.

 

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