Number Pad / Macro Pad / Stream Deck / Loupedeck

[Mark Aceto]

I'm working on a solution for a couple things:

• Only using my left hand for
  • Views
  • Hotkeys
  • Tool modes
• Mapping the 4 lower views
• Remapping UIOP[ ] because the mouse is attached to my right hand like Ash's chainsaw, so I never use them
• Restoring (and possibly remapping) the Snapping Modes hotkeys
  • Which are also cool because double-tapping them brings up the settings for each mode

Note: at this point, VW is the must-have; other apps are a nice-to-have / "let's see where this goes... "

 

I'm looking for input (pardon the pun) based on others' experience with these doodads, including other hotkeys that are underutilized that I'm overlooking. I'm not interested in shortcuts.

 

Here's a discussion about using these for CAD:

 

 

 

Here's an example of a Macro Pad that would use the default keys:

 

 

Here's what I'm thinking for mapping the Macro Pad (1 too many rows for a Streamdeck XL):

 

 

 

Here's what I'm thinking for mapping a Streamdeck XL:

 

 

 

Here's what I'm thinking for a Streamdeck but I would lose the hotkeys (less concerned about the arrows):

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Lunar Waneshaft

[E|FA]

I use the numeric keypad on my Apple extended keyboard to handle the view options.  I find it very convenient.

 

I've heard good things about the Streamdeck XL, but am holding off for now because I don't have the free time to work through the set up.  I'm sure it would save me time in the long run, but deadlines...  There's a Streamdeck thread here: 

 

I've also considered repurposing an old iPhone or iPad for StreamDeck Mobile or Touch Portal but the same time constraint applies.  I'm curious if anyone has tried those options.

 

 

[Mark Aceto]

I guess another thing, and this is why I like numpads and macropads is I'm a touch typist, so I don't want to look at the keys, so ideally would feel keycaps

[LarryO]

When I was using an imac and the keyboard without the numeric keypad. I was most happy with having purchased an inexpensive keypad that I placed to the left of the keyboard. It had the arrow keys, home, end and a forward delete. No longer was I bumping into an oversized keyboard with my mouse, nor having to release the mouse to press the navigation and view keys when my left arm got tired of reaching over to the right side numeric keys. And I now had an enter key on both sides of the keyboard even though there are some functional differences between return and enter.

I have been thinking and looking for reasonable priced option for scripted keys for some time. I recall when I first started drafting in the early 90's on Autocad that in addition to keyboard entry many workstations had a graphic tablet with a puck for input and those tablets had flexible and programmable menus. Plastic overlays to identify different functional areas. Menus that could change depending upon the current context or a modifier key was being pressed.

Somehow a lot of that functionality was lost or ignored when magnetic tablets went to the grave and these new touch screens simply have not caught up to the past. Or at least not within a typical workstation budget.

[Mark Aceto]

1 hour ago, LarryO said:

When I was using an imac and the keyboard without the numeric keypad. I was most happy with having purchased an inexpensive keypad that I placed to the left of the keyboard. It had the arrow keys, home, end and a forward delete. No longer was I bumping into an oversized keyboard with my mouse, nor having to release the mouse to press the navigation and view keys when my left arm got tired of reaching over to the right side numeric keys. And I now had an enter key on both sides of the keyboard even though there are some functional differences between return and enter.

I have been thinking and looking for reasonable priced option for scripted keys for some time. I recall when I first started drafting in the early 90's on Autocad that in addition to keyboard entry many workstations had a graphic tablet with a puck for input and those tablets had flexible and programmable menus. Plastic overlays to identify different functional areas. Menus that could change depending upon the current context or a modifier key was being pressed.

Somehow a lot of that functionality was lost or ignored when magnetic tablets went to the grave and these new touch screens simply have not caught up to the past. Or at least not within a typical workstation budget.

 

I've been using this setup forever:

 

 

Experimented with this expanded numpad for awhile but it's a cheaper crappier version of the one in the pic (might pull it out of the drawer and give it another shot):

This is what got me thinking about a macro pad... 

[Mark Aceto]

I mapped out the dedicated hotkeys in an effort to find some gaps. There are definitely some weaker ones that I'll never use that could be replaced (although I know that won't work for everyone else):

 

The blue rectangles are the default resting finger positions. The ";" is only for Windows. I just discovered the "fn" key is a hotkey for the Mac Character Viewer aka Emoji's etc.

 

I tried restoring Snapping modes (yellow keys above) but fell short because of R and F (and that Working Plane 3D mode that wasn't a hotkey option before):

 

[LarryO]

This is the device I was using. They probably don't make them anymore.

It was a big improvement in my workflow. I'm primarily lefthanded but use a mouse effectively with my right hand.

The ergonomics of an extended keyboard with navigation keys on the right almost requiring you to let go of the mouse to operate them is counter-productive.

[E|FA]

It helps if you’re a lousy typist. Lots of things don’t matter as much. 

[Mark Aceto]

3 hours ago, LarryO said:

This is the device I was using. They probably don't make them anymore.

It was a big improvement in my workflow. I'm primarily lefthanded but use a mouse effectively with my right hand.

The ergonomics of an extended keyboard with navigation keys on the right almost requiring you to let go of the mouse to operate them is counter-productive.

 

Can't tell you how many times I've tried to become a left-handed mouse user, so I can use a typical (right-handed) full size extended keyboard.

[Jesse Cogswell]

12 or so years ago I used a Razer Nostromo gamepad for this (now it's the Razer Tartarus, nicer but same button layout).  I'm left handed, but use a mouse with my right hand, so it worked really well for getting away from using the keyboard.  I recall it having 7 or 8 different layouts per application, so I had it set up that I could roll through them with the scroll wheel and had a different layout for different functions (one for views, one for data entry / basic tools, one for 3D modeling, one for Spotlight, etc).

 

I used it extensively for two years or so until I got a new laptop.  The profiles are now tied to the cloud, but they weren't back then, and I didn't feel like rebuilding the profile.  So I put it in a drawer, where it lives to this day.

[Mark Aceto]

On 6/22/2022 at 8:21 PM, Jesse Cogswell said:

12 or so years ago I used a Razer Nostromo gamepad for this (now it's the Razer Tartarus, nicer but same button layout).  I'm left handed, but use a mouse with my right hand, so it worked really well for getting away from using the keyboard.  I recall it having 7 or 8 different layouts per application, so I had it set up that I could roll through them with the scroll wheel and had a different layout for different functions (one for views, one for data entry / basic tools, one for 3D modeling, one for Spotlight, etc).

 

I used it extensively for two years or so until I got a new laptop.  The profiles are now tied to the cloud, but they weren't back then, and I didn't feel like rebuilding the profile.  So I put it in a drawer, where it lives to this day.

 

I was looking at the same things... 

[Mark Aceto]

Solved it!

 

[trevorgooch]

@Mark Aceto - did you land on a winner?  Based on your Stream Deck question the other day, maybe you did?  I'm looking for something similar - and if it's reasonably portable, the better.

[Mark Aceto]

4 hours ago, trevorgooch said:

@Mark Aceto - did you land on a winner?  Based on your Stream Deck question the other day, maybe you did?  I'm looking for something similar - and if it's reasonably portable, the better.

 

Great to see you in the meeting this week! I've fallen down a custom keyboard rabbit hole, and am leaning toward something that looks like this (fulling mappable with VIA or QMK) but I'm still hoping for a Streamdeck that's at least 5 rows. That said, I could see a Streamdeck XL in my future... 

 

[LarryO]

@Mark Aceto

Where pray tell did you find that arrangement?

It is a minor improvement over the typical extended keyboard now "standard" configuration, but that broken keyboard pretty much forces two-handed operation. Being able to select the keys with one hand and not need to release the mouse to achieve a multi-button operation is preferable, more ergonomic. Still a gigantic width that could get in the way of operating the mouse, IMHO

[E|FA]

Anybody try TouchPortal on an iPad? It looks like a less expensive ($14) alternative to a StreamDeck if you have an unused iPad lying around.  I purchased it, but haven't had a chance to set it up and play with it.

 

 

[trevorgooch]

Hey, @Mark Aceto

 

The folks at 3Dconnexion have been following this thread, I think - and they're running a promotion on the keyboard / number keypad set for $99 until 12/31. 

 

https://3dconnexion.com/us/product/keyboard-pro-with-numpad/buy/

 

They have definitely tuned into the ergonomics of it all.  I want to like it more, but it all feels... meh.  Though, the price is really tempting.  I can't decide if I want the numeric keypad left side-car, or the stream deck... All of this because I have "found the need" for a new keyboard to resolve a KVM setup.

 

 

[LarryO]

That arrangement shows a lot of promise. The guys arms are in a more natural relaxed position. He will not be bumping into the keyboard nearly as much as one would with the typical extended keyboards that are ship with computers nowadays. He has enter and correction keys on both sides of his desktop so he need not lose control of the mouse to press the most used key (backspace) on the keyboard. As opposed to this layout also on their web site which shows this man's right elbow fully extended to manipulate the mouse and remain free form the interference of the keyboard's numpad extension. I would be surprised if this doesn't cause muscle fatigue in the right arm or forearm.

 

I still feel that a tablet screen of similar size to the keypad they have developed with multiple pages of menus including contextual options harking back to the old overlay concept of the original magnetic drafting tablets only with coded virtual buttons; combining image based glyphs and touch screen tech to present a relevant menus and options; a swipe this way or that presenting the users frequent graphical menus or keys, swiping being similar to how the android operating systems' extended desktop is flipped or changed. 

[E|FA]

Apparently not compatible with Mac OS: https://3dconnexion.com/us/supported-operating-systems/

 

[Mark Aceto]

Just now, trevorgooch said:

Hey, @Mark Aceto

 

The folks at 3Dconnexion have been following this thread, I think - and they're running a promotion on the keyboard / number keypad set for $99 until 12/31. 

 

https://3dconnexion.com/us/product/keyboard-pro-with-numpad/buy/

 

They have definitely tuned into the ergonomics of it all.  I want to like it more, but it all feels... meh.  Though, the price is really tempting.  I can't decide if I want the numeric keypad left side-car, or the stream deck... All of this because I have "found the need" for a new keyboard to resolve a KVM setup.

 

 

 

They've been trying to clear out that inventory for awhile. They now sell the numpad separately and renamed it "Pro" 🤣. It's also supposedly not macOS compatible but I suspect that applies mostly to the driver which is actually pretty important because of all the macros and key binding. The price is budget but they really missed the mark for a lot of users.

 

On a positive note, they quietly updated the Wireless CadMouse Pro with a USB-C connection which I immediately snagged (finally replaced my OG wired CadMouse from 7 years ago). They also have a southpaw option for lefties (or ergonomics): https://3dconnexion.com/us/cadmouse/#compare. Cannot say enough good things about their mouse and pad.

I'm currently rocking:

• IDOBAO ID80 v3 Bestype 75% keyboard
• IDOBAO Montex NumberPad

Thinking about using some VW icons to create custom keycaps for the lower views I have mapped to the numpad: https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/custom-art-cherry-mx-keycaps.html

 

In the meantime, I'm waiting for my fancy custom cables and wrist rest to be delivered... I'll post pics when it gets a little further along.

 

BTW I'll never buy another keyboard / numpad that isn't compatible with QMK / VIA software.

 

[Mark Aceto]

Here's a good intro to QMK / VIA but it's not limited to Keychron. Most custom keebs manufacturers are compatible these days:

 

https://www.keychron.com/blogs/news/why-qmk-via-is-one-of-the-most-essential-features-for-a-custom-keyboard

 

For context, here's a recent custom layout with macros I mapped to my last numpad for lower views (need to migrate them to the new numpad):

[Mark Aceto]

6 hours ago, LarryO said:

I still feel that a tablet screen of similar size to the keypad they have developed with multiple pages of menus including contextual options harking back to the old overlay concept of the original magnetic drafting tablets only with coded virtual buttons; combining image based glyphs and touch screen tech to present a relevant menus and options; a swipe this way or that presenting the users frequent graphical menus or keys, swiping being similar to how the android operating systems' extended desktop is flipped or changed. 

 

A lot of physical keebs manage this with layers. Anyone who's used a Streamdeck is familiar with this. The nice thing about the giant Streamdeck is that you can use the icons instead of memorize key bindings. Also, you can configure key bindings to specific apps.

 

BTW they have an iOS app kind of like what you're describing but it's a subscription, so they can F right off with that BS:

 

 

Also Vectorworks Remote is still around in the iOS App Store: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/vectorworks-remote/id910133995

[Mark Aceto]

On 12/2/2022 at 1:43 PM, LarryO said:

@Mark Aceto

Where pray tell did you find that arrangement?

It is a minor improvement over the typical extended keyboard now "standard" configuration, but that broken keyboard pretty much forces two-handed operation. Being able to select the keys with one hand and not need to release the mouse to achieve a multi-button operation is preferable, more ergonomic. Still a gigantic width that could get in the way of operating the mouse, IMHO

 

You might also like split keebs with the numpad in the middle (which is cool because you could use with either hand).

 

https://keeb.io/collections/split-keyboards

 

[E|FA]

20 hours ago, LarryO said:

I still feel that a tablet screen of similar size to the keypad they have developed with multiple pages of menus including contextual options harking back to the old overlay concept of the original magnetic drafting tablets only with coded virtual buttons; combining image based glyphs and touch screen tech to present a relevant menus and options; a swipe this way or that presenting the users frequent graphical menus or keys, swiping being similar to how the android operating systems' extended desktop is flipped or changed. 

Sounds like you're describing TouchPortal, which I've downloaded but haven't really tried to work with yet.

[LarryO]

6 hours ago, E|FA said:

Sounds like you're describing TouchPortal, which I've downloaded but haven't really tried to work with yet.

That actually seems to have the ability to do what I have wished for many years. I cannot seem to find their legal page though to know who the developer is and their legal address. Can't be buying stuff from North Korea (or China/Russia now) you know. Imagine the havoc a product like this could cause if it has a back door with nefarious intent.