Multiple Drawing Sets/Sheets Numbers Within a File

[zbone]

The simplest version of my question is: Is is possible to have more than one "Sheet 01" in a single file?

 

I am trying to set up a title block with linked fields and it would be really helpful if the sheet number would auto-populate. However, I have multiple drawing sets I need within the one file, so I'd end up with multiple "Sheet 01" sheets (Drawing No. 01 Sheet 01 through Sheet 04, Drawing No. 02 Sheet No. 01 through 07, etc.). VW straight up will not allow me to have two of "Sheet 01", which makes sense, but I feel like I'm missing something as I can't be the only one that creates multiple drawing sets from one model.

 

Bonus question: Is it possible to have multiple title block data sets within one file? It seems like the answer is 'yes' because I was able to import a title block and VW asked me to rename it, but now I can't find where I would change which data set the title block references.

 

Thanks in advance for any insight. Trying to teach myself this and I'm wondering if I'm a bad teacher, or a bad student. Or both.

[Jeff Prince]

Sometimes it is easier to accomplish this with your model in one file and your sets each contained in a separate file for each set. You reference your model in.  Numbering problem avoided.

 

Alternatively, if the single file solution is required for some reason, you can add a letter to your sheet number to segregate the sets and avoid naming conflicts.  L1A, L1B, L1C, etc… where the suffix letter is indicative of the drawing set.

 

There are other ways to do this, but I believe these are the quickest and most reliable while preserving the automated labeling and such.

[Andy Broomell]

You can also add a space at the end of a Sheet Name to make it technically different than an existing sheet. "01" vs "01 ".

[zbone]

22 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Sometimes it is easier to accomplish this with your model in one file and your sets each contained in a separate file for each set. You reference your model in.  Numbering problem avoided.

 

Alternatively, if the single file solution is required for some reason, you can add a letter to your sheet number to segregate the sets and avoid naming conflicts.  L1A, L1B, L1C, etc… where the suffix letter is indicative of the drawing set.

 

There are other ways to do this, but I believe these are the quickest and most reliable while preserving the automated labeling and such.

So a viewport can be created into a separate file? Or are you just saying you copy the necessary portions of the model into another file for that set of drawings? If it's the latter, that's what I do now. I was hoping there was a way to have it all contained in one file. It's strange to me that VW doesn't have a system for multiple sheets within a set of drawings, but oh well. 

[zbone]

18 minutes ago, Andy Broomell said:

You can also add a space at the end of a Sheet Name to make it technically different than an existing sheet. "01" vs "01 ".

This would work in a pinch, but unfortunately I have several drawing sets so eventually it'd get a little tedious and confusion to manage. Good idea though and thanks for the reply!

[michaelk]

VW is picky about names.  No two layers can have the same name, and the sheet number is considered the name.  Slightly confusing:  The sheet titles can be duplicated.  

 

So you can have

 

A10  Building Sections

A11  Building Sections

A12  Building Sections

 

But not

 

A2 Site Plan

A2 Landscape Plan

 

Could you have a prefix for each set type and use batch rename to remove the prefix for the currently publishing set?

[zbone]

7 minutes ago, michaelk said:

VW is picky about names.  No two layers can have the same name, and the sheet number is considered the name.  Slightly confusing:  The sheet titles can be duplicated.  

 

So you can have

 

A10  Building Sections

A11  Building Sections

A12  Building Sections

 

But not

 

A2 Site Plan

A2 Landscape Plan

 

Could you have a prefix for each set type and use batch rename to remove the prefix for the currently publishing set?

Makes sense that the program won't have it. It's just surprising since there is a way to put drawing number into the text block data, so you would assume that sheet number would also be able to be manipulated. Having Drawing Number 2 Sheet Number 7 when it's the first sheet of Drawing 2 isn't super helpful. Although, that could just be the way that my company does things.

 

That work around is a good one, but my projects end up being several drawings with 3-5 sheets per set, so it's probably more work to do it that way than to just copy the parts I need into 'drawing set files' like I had been doing. In any case, I appreciate you taking the time to try and help me!

[michaelk]

Have you tried having a "Parent" file with all the design layers and referencing them to  "child" drawings?  Those drawings can have whatever sheet layers you want.  

 

You would have to do all the work in the parent file.  Then reopen or update references in the "child" drawings.

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, zbone said:

So a viewport can be created into a separate file? Or are you just saying you copy the necessary portions of the model into another file for that set of drawings? If it's the latter, that's what I do now. I was hoping there was a way to have it all contained in one file. It's strange to me that VW doesn't have a system for multiple sheets within a set of drawings, but oh well. 

Not copying… referencing.

@michaelk described it pretty well.

your model can contain a bunch of model versions separated into design layers, the display of which can be controlled in a design layer reference viewport placed on a design layer in your sets, which would be a separate file.

[zbone]

1 hour ago, michaelk said:

Have you tried having a "Parent" file with all the design layers and referencing them to  "child" drawings?  Those drawings can have whatever sheet layers you want.  

 

You would have to do all the work in the parent file.  Then reopen or update references in the "child" drawings.

 

 

 

I have not - I did not realize that was possible. I tried just creating a viewport from one file to another which obviously did not work. I'm out for today but I'll have some time to play with that in the morning and report back. That sounds like that would mostly solve my problem.

 

31 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Not copying… referencing.

@michaelk described it pretty well.

your model can contain a bunch of model versions separated into design layers, the display of which can be controlled in a design layer reference viewport placed on a design layer in your sets, which would be a separate file.

 

Ok, I think I understand your and michaelk's responses enough to dig into it tomorrow morning. Wish me luck - a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. ;)

[zbone]

I only have Fundamentals and unless I'm missing something, that is not a feature I have access to. Either way, I know it exists now and when I am eventually upgraded to a Design Series license I'll be able to play with it and see if it will help simplify my process/files. Thanks again for your help, @michaelk & @jeff prince!

Edited May 26, 2022 by zbone

[michaelk]

I don't have Fundamentals, and I can't find the chart of features for each module.  But I don't think there is a limit on design layer viewports that reference other drawings.

 

I could be totally wrong about this, I'm never clear about the limitations of Fundamentals.

[Pat Stanford]

As of VW2021, Fundamentals is shown as having the ability to edit referenced design layer viewports. 

 

I have not found the W2022 chart yet.

 

https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2021/eng/Commands_Tools2021.pdf

[michaelk]

Pat,  nice work digging that up 🙂.  

 

@zbone, I think you can try this now!

[zbone]

Unless I am missing something obvious, which is very possible, it does not seem to be the case for VW2022. The option to reference design layer viewports is grayed out and not selectable.

 

 

I tried adding a referenced file thinking maybe that would unlock the option, but no dice.

Edited May 26, 2022 by zbone

[Jeff Prince]

4 minutes ago, zbone said:

Unless I am missing something obvious, which is very possible, it does not seem to be the case for VW2022. The option to reference design layer viewports is grayed out and not selectable.

 

I tried adding a referenced file thinking maybe that would unlock the option, but no dice.

 

 

 

Probably a flaw in your method of setting up the design layer viewport.

Lots of training on Vectorworks University or Youtube in this regard.

[Pat Stanford]

Go to the Create Viewport menu command. Set it to Create on a Design Layer. That should unlock the Source button which will allow you to pick the file you want to reference the data from.

[michaelk]

1.  Save the parent file.

2.  in the child file View > Create Viewport…

3.  In General Settings:  Create on Layer __. Choose a layer in the child document.

4.  Click Select Source > External Document 

5.  Click Choose… and navigate to the parent document.

 

We can talk about the relative merit of Absolute Path vs Path relative to current document in a minute.  But for now choose Path relative.

 

You will now have a viewport of the parent file.  In the OIP for that viewport you can choose the layers and classes you want visible.

[Pat Stanford]

3 minutes ago, michaelk said:

3.  In General Settings:  Create on Layer __. Choose a DESIGN layer in the child document.

 

You have to pull the data onto a Design Layer. You can then use that Design Layer Viewport as part of  a Sheet Layer Viewport.

[michaelk]

Good point.  This only works w/ design layer viewports as homes for the referenced viewports.

[zbone]

Either I'm not understanding, or this is a Fundamentals vs. Design issue because I'm not even able to select a Design Layer to create the viewport on. I have multiple Design Layers but when I click the drop down box there are only Sheet Layers in that list.

 

Edit: This is a screenshot from the child document, not the parent. I have referenced the file I need to in the Organization window at this point as well.

Edited May 26, 2022 by zbone

[michaelk]

I see you don't even have the option for New Design Layer…

 

Maybe there are no DLVPs in Fundamentals?

[Pat Stanford]

take a look at this thread.  it implies that DLVPs are in Fundamentals.  

 

Maybe you have the referencing mode set to Layer Import.

 

 

[zbone]

All I can figure is that has changed for VW2022 because I am not able to change the referencing mode (see first screenshot I shared above).

 

Here's a link that states Design Suite is required: https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2022/eng/VW2022_Guide/Viewports1/Creating_design_layer_viewports.htm

[Andy Broomell]

I think Fundamentals supports internal DLVPs, and external references via Import method, but not externally referenced DLVPs.

 

https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2022/eng/VW2022_Guide/Viewports1/Creating_a_referenced_design_layer_viewport.htm#h

 

Quote

In the Vectorworks Fundamentals product, design layers are imported into the target file when they are referenced.