David Poiron Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 We have a series of exterior wall panels that we would like to easily change the colour of, but they are in a symbol. Is there a way to set up a record format and attach it to a symbol object to get it change the colour of the wall? I'm thinking a viewport instead of a symbol may also work. This needs to be available on a design layer (on a per object basis) which is why I'm thinking a data visualization won't work. Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Take a look in the help files for Data Visualization. It can probably do what you want. Quote Link to comment
David Poiron Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 I can get this to work directly on an object but not inside a symbol (from outside the symbol). I guess what I am looking to have is a "flexible symbol" where the geometry stays the same but individual instances can have different colour/material. I will likely have to simply create symbols with the same geometry but different colours and do a replace symbol. Unless there is something I am missing... Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Can you post a simplified file with a few of the objects you are trying to change so we can take a look? A few of the symbols in a wall should be all we need. Quote Link to comment
David Poiron Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 wall panel test 2.vwx The key is that I'm not trying to have symbols in a wall. The wall is in the symbol. See attached. I've left some times as symbols and others as objects without a container for testing. Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Let's start from the beginning as even after looking at your file I don't know exactly what you want to do. It appears that you want to attach a record to each Wall and use the value of that record used in a visualization to set the color for the wall. It appears that your Color visualization does that. What it does not do is allow you to override record of the wall by the record of the symbol or group that it is contained in. I am happy to try and help, but I don't understand what issue you are having based on what you have posted so far. I am thinking it might not be possible to do this fully automated using just a visualization. You might need to configure a worksheet to show you the record for each wall and adjust that so you don't have to edit the group/symbol to make what you want happen. Quote Link to comment
David Poiron Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 Quote What it does not do is allow you to override record of the wall by the record of the symbol or group that it is contained in. This is what I am trying to do but it does not appear there is a way in VW to do that! I don't think there is a mechanism in VW to modify a particular aspect of a symbol instance (such as the colour of an internal object) and still keep the geometry the same. I think I will have to do one of two things - either not use symbols but use data visualization as presented in the file or, simply have symbols for each colour and perform a Replace Symbol as required. Thanks for considering this, Pat. Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 After a lot more research, it appears to be a bug in the data visualization code. It appears to be cacheing the information from the record of objects inside the symbol definition as whatever it was on the first run. I have found an (inconvenient) work around, but one that may be better than replacing symbols. If you Export a visualization, delete it, and then import it again it will take on the then current symbol/record information. The attached file also show another trick that might help you. I have created a worksheet showing all of the objects with the Colours record attached. I also added an identifier field to the record format. You can use the worksheet to modify the record data attached wiithout having to enter the groups or symbols. Couple that with the delete and import work around, I think you could get a relatively quick workflow to let you change the setting of different symbols and still be able to use visualization to view different options. I am submitting a bug on this. Quote Link to comment
Andy Broomell Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Just to back up a second, I think the issue is something else. In the criteria in the file you attached, the DataVis is set up to only look for and operate on Walls & Solids. That's the "Object Criteria." This follows through to the Display Criteria part of the DataVis window, which is only recoloring objects set in the Object Criteria above. The records you've attached to geometry in the drawings are attached to Symbols. However, DataVis isn't looking at or operating on Symbols. It's being told to only look at Walls & Solids. Therefore the DataVis can't use the records attached to Symbols since it's not looking at Symbols at any point. If you change the DataVis object criteria to also include Symbols, then instances of your "wall01-solid symbol" Symbol DO get re-colored based on their attached record. However, since it's operating on the Symbol in its entirety, ALL objects contained within the symbol get recolored: I can't think of a logical way to re-color only individual sub-objects of a Symbol based on records attached to the Symbol container. But hopefully this helps you understand what's currently happening. Quote Link to comment
Andy Broomell Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 It sounds like something that would be useful to you would be a functionality wished for in this thread: wherein we discuss wanting to have the ability to have different attributes applied to instances of the same symbol. (Think for example two couches, one red velvet and the other grey leather, but they're the same Symbol). This could take the form of having attributes within a Symbol having the option of "BySymbol" or "ByParent". That way you could set a Symbol instance to a particular color or texture, and any objects inside of it which are set to "BySymbol" would inherit that selected attribute. This would give you selective control over which objects inherit the Symbols' attributes versus which objects keep their original attributes. I believe the "0" Layer within AutoCad blocks functions similarly (?) This feature has also been wishlisted by Pat, though only Beta testers can see this thread: Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 @Andy Broomell I think I did a pretty deep dive and I think it is Visualization cacheing. I removed the records from the symbol and attached it only to the walls inside the symbol. The first time you run the visualization it works and grabs the appropriate color. Change the record value and the visualization changes for objects outside of symbols. Delete and import the visualization and on first run it again gets the correct color. I am still hoping for the ByParent wish to be granted. 😉 Quote Link to comment
Andy Broomell Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said: I removed the records from the symbol and attached it only to the walls inside the symbol. The first time you run the visualization it works and grabs the appropriate color. If the record is attached to an object inside the symbol, how do you then get different symbols with different colors? Doesn't setting the record value determine the record value for all instances? You know WAY more about records that I do, so just trying to catch up in my understanding 🙂 Quote Link to comment
David Poiron Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 Pat and Andy, Thanks for going further with this. By adding 'symbol' to the visualization criteria (and removing wall and solids as they are not necessary) and making sure that objects inside the symbol do not have the record format attached (it is attached at the symbol level), data visualization does indeed work! I think this may be enough for what I need at the moment. Have more granular control over objects inside the system at some point would be great. Pat, I am curious about the file you mentioned with your worksheet but I did not see it attached. Can you repost? Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Here is the file I posted with the bug report. Sorry I forgot to attach. Have also attached the movie showing the problem. Data Viz of Symbol w Record.mp4 Visualization of Symbols PTS.vwx Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Andy Broomell said: If the record is attached to an object inside the symbol, how do you then get different symbols with different colors? Doesn't setting the record value determine the record value for all instances? You know WAY more about records that I do, so just trying to catch up in my understanding 🙂 You are correct. Each instance of the symbol will have the same setting. If you change one to Blue, they all change to blue. So you would need a different symbol for every different "option" you need. But then you only have to change the symbols to get the pattern you want. You can use Data Viz to generate all the different "looks" based on the pattern of symbols. Quote Link to comment
Andy Broomell Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 36 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said: Here is the file I posted with the bug report. Sorry I forgot to attach. Have also attached the movie showing the problem. I see the issue you were describing now, that video illustrates it well. And it hadn't ever occurred to me to use a worksheet to change record values for the purpose of DataVis. Brilliant! Quote Link to comment
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