Zsombor Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 (edited) Hi Everyone, I've watched a lots of tutorilas about VWX site modeling, but when it comes to real work it never seems to be so easy. Now I'm working on a projekt where I have several pools in the middle of a curved form hardscape. Around the pools it should be flat, and towards the edges slight downward slope. Beside the hardscape there's a curved grass covered slope with different downward % on each part of it. Hardscape: First I wanted the site model to align to my hardscape so I used hardscape surface modifiers: stakes on some points of it (just like in the picture I attached). In 3D view some parts of the hardscape were on the rigth height, some stayed on zero. Then I tried to use grades to draw the needed heights and slopes in the middle of the hardscape. In 3D everything stayed on zero except that particular line where the grades are. Pad modifier (with texture bed hardscape setting) gave me the best result, but there I could only set 2 different slopes, which doesnt give the exact result what I need. Is there a good solution for that? Grassy slope: I used a 3D polyline to represent the upper and lower edges, and it works, but I had to set each vertex height manually. Is it the right way to do it? Or is there a better one? Thank you Zsombor Edited April 12, 2022 by Zsombor Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 ...in section viewport the hardscapes stayed on zero heght. I think because they are 'just' texture beds. So pad modifier+texture beds definitely are not the right solution. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Scott Lebsack Posted April 12, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted April 12, 2022 (edited) Do you have a grade limit on your site model? I believe you were on the right course using the hardscapes. If you use it in aligned hardscape mode, you should be able to add modifiers to your hardscape similar to what you are showing across your site now. These two items should get you a good start. Edited April 12, 2022 by slebsack Additional information and questions Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted April 14, 2022 Author Share Posted April 14, 2022 Thank you Slebsack for your answer! The grade limit didn't solve my problem (you can see it in the picture, now I set one). I set up the heights for the hardscape in aligned hardscape mode with stakes and grade ojects in the editor window. Within the area between the stake objects the hardscape goes to the right level, but outside them the level stays at zero. A hardscape shouldn't behave like this, like water, I can't put stakes on every point of the curved edge. I tried: the tiny parts outside them stayed also on zero. Or is there an other way to level a curved formed hardscape? Thank you, Zsombor Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Scott Lebsack Posted April 14, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted April 14, 2022 What does your existing surface model look like? is it possible the share the file to look at. Are your modifiers isolated on their own layer? It looks like you may have some modifier conflicts that are causing the site model to behave erratically. Are you certain there are no extraneous modifiers that are crossing or touching the grade limits, or overlapping each other? Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted April 15, 2022 Author Share Posted April 15, 2022 Thank you, I attached the file, I copied the site model and the hardscape to a blank one. But you can also demonstrate it easily: just create a site model from 4 stakes then make a roundform hardscape with couple of stake modifiers or grades.próba2.vwx próba2.vwx Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Scott Lebsack Posted April 15, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) Part of what is causing the issue is that your hardscape elevation is 0, since it is a modifier, when it doesn't have a point placed along the edge it is returning the site model to zero, resulting in the jagged interpolation. Additionally, we have had better luck grading the surface using site modifiers (similar to the grading network you created for your hardscape, except for the site) and using the landscape area to place pavement rather than the aligned hardscape. First image is setting the hardscape elevation to 109 and subtracting 109 from all your points... Still not great. Here is a shot grading the surface model - I used your elevation to create pads on the site model and used the landscape area to create the paving. I will attach this file for you to look at. I hope this is useful? próba2_Landscape Area.vwx Edited April 15, 2022 by slebsack typo Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted April 15, 2022 Author Share Posted April 15, 2022 Thank you, this method with the landscape area really seems to be the best solution for this. I'm just wondering why you cant make the same with a hardscape? If you just could use pads or at least 3D polys in the surface modifier window.... Thank you for your help, best regards Zsombor 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Popular Post Scott Lebsack Posted April 15, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2022 The hardscape tool is older. It works well for simple pads and pads with a single slope. Once you're beyond that, the Landscape Area is newer and works better. I have heard someone mention that the tool could be called "Surface Area" tool because it does so well defining an area on a site model surface regardless of what that area is defining. I believe it also is very good at reporting data in worksheets, and will actually "excavate" the site model so your cut/fill numbers will be more accurate as well. Good Luck! 5 Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted April 21, 2022 Author Share Posted April 21, 2022 Now I started to use landscape area for every surface and it seemed to be really fine for a while. But now some of the objects which are the same style look empty in 3D. The user origin is within 2-300 meters. Not only in shaded mode but also in others. Why? In 2D it's OK. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Scott Lebsack Posted April 21, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted April 21, 2022 Make sure the landscape areas have a solid fill in the attributes palette? Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 Hi, thank you for your answer. They are absolutely the same in every aspect. I copied it to a blank file and attach. Other annoying thing: in 3D view things sometimes just dissapear when I use flyover tool or zoom or pan. Then I have to go back to top view and start again. With this blank file it works now well, but with the original one it fails although there are only the layers of these few things open. I apprepriate your help! próba4.vwx Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Scott Lebsack Posted April 22, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) I believe your site model is causing the problem, and probably a lot of others in your file. it seemed really slow working on it previously? All your drawing elements appear to be located near the origin, but notice the coordinates of your site model insertion point (image). If I delete the site model everything seems fine. So, I edited your site model data and moved the points creating your site model closer to the origin, then deleted the crop, and moved the site model insertion point to 0,0, this got it close to the original site model location. I drew a couple of lines before making changes that allowed me to line it up with the original location (before changing the site model data). Once that was done. I made sure to assign all the texture beds to the site model (image) and updated. That resulted in the landscape areas behaving as expected. I think this all comes down to working too far from the origin, as so many things do, even if you weren't aware. I think this will fix many issues you may have been having difficulty with Also, I would set all your landscape styles by style (little arrow) instead of by instance (two horizontal slider icon) unless you have some very specific reason not to, name being the exception. I've attached the file if you want to copy the site model out of it, and see the changes I made to the landscape area. próba4.vwx Edited April 22, 2022 by Scott Lebsack typo 2 Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 You just gave me back my hope in vectorworks! Spent hours to solve it, I thought that it should be something abot big coordinates, but my user origin was close, so I had no idea. I really cannot imagine how the dtm's insertation point went so far away, I generated the dtm from couple of newly drawn stakes, what could happen? Resetting the coordinates solved my 3D view problem. Then changing the LA setup to 'by style' solved also the emptiness issue! Really apprepriate your kind and useful help! Zsombor 2 Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 For me vectorworks puts the site model's insertation point always to internal origin for any reason. Do you have a trick how to avoid this? I couldn' find any topic about that. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Scott Lebsack Posted April 25, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted April 25, 2022 The problem with the file I worked with was that the stakes used to create it were very far from the origin, and that the site model was located near the origin. To change it, I use the recreate from source data edit option, grouped your stakes and set the center of the group at 0,0 this relocated the origin of the site model source data close to the origin, I then deleted the crop and regenerated the site model and adjusted it's final location to match the original. There are a few things you can do regarding the origin. You can use GIS to set/get the origin, or the origin tool, if the project you are working on is not referenced in some other system. @Tony Kostreski is better with GIS, you may be able to find a webinar from him that explains this well? Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted April 26, 2022 Author Share Posted April 26, 2022 I see, thank you! Quote Link to comment
HebHeb Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Nice to see other people using the LA instead of the hardscape tool for this "specific task' Saved me so much time in BIM workflows... You mentioned "origin" Do you mean the distance from the active user origin (coordinate system)? or the vectorworks-origin (blue point)? I always work near the vectorworks-origin, but always with large-scale coordinates. And yes I often work with really sluggish huge projects… Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Scott Lebsack Posted May 5, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted May 5, 2022 The "Origin" is tough, and something I still have problems with on occasion, but when a file begins behaving oddly, that is one of the first items to check. I'm sure there a folks on this forum who have a better grasp of the subject, but here's a good resource to get started. 1 Quote Link to comment
Zsombor Posted May 18, 2022 Author Share Posted May 18, 2022 I've just noticed your post. Thank you for the linked page, I'll read it. Quote Link to comment
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