Jump to content

Items Changing from 2D to 3D


Recommended Posts

You are changing views on Layer Plane objects, that appear to be 2d in Top/Plan view, but are actually flat 3d objects that appear as 3d from any other viewpoint.  To check an object, select it and look in the Object Information Palette (OIP).  Does it say "Layer Plane," or does it say "Screen Plane?"  You can change the nature of the object by clicking on the drop-down menu in the OIP.  Screen Plane objects are true 2d objects, and always look the same regardless of whether the screen has a Top/Plan orientation or some other 3d view.

Edited by P Retondo
  • Like 1
Link to comment

In VW2022, Screen Plane in new documents has been moved to a Legacy 2D feature. You can turn Screen Plane on in the Document preferences. Updated documents that already used screen plane objects automatically have this turned on.

 

I am not seeing this same thing in a test file.

 

What version of VW are you running?

 

You are copying and pasting about 500' from the origin in the X direction. How far from the origin are you in the Y direction? Object far from the origin (multiple kilometers) can create issues.

 

Can you duplicate this in a new blank file?

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Hey Pat. Thanks for the input. Not sure if I've mentioned this in other postings, but my working files are generally pushing 600MB. And no, I can not seem to duplicate many of these issues in test files; btw 90% of my work is 2D when these issues occur. I also average ~45+ hrs a week on VWX so maybe my error rate isn't high.

 

Some of the drawings are spread that far apart... between structures and site/landscape plans, the distance adds up. And I've considered breaking the files up and using design layer viewports into a hub, but I've other issues with that.

 

As for what I've been running, I spent the past two weeks testing a MacBook Pro 16" M1 Max w/ 64GB w/ v2022 VWX. I had so many continuing issues (lag, glitches, crashes) I returned it... not sure how powerful of a machine one needs to run smooth (not perfect). Curious what hardware the operators are running that create these massive/beautiful projects VWX showcases.

 

Guess I'll chalk this up to an imperfect world.

 

Thanks again

Link to comment

Many users are running M1 with 16 or 32 MB and not having any issues.

 

I am becoming really curious what you have in your files that is making them act this strangely.

 

Other users routinely have 3D models of well over 1GB and they run smoothly.

 

Are you using a template that has been brought forward many versions?  If so, it may be time to bite the bullet and create a new template file from scratch.

Link to comment

P Redondo, thanks for your time on this. Missed your comment. Firstly, I was told multiple times that if you're drafting 2D architectural floor plans you should be drafting in Layer Plane. 3D aside, that's how a new file opens and to stick with it. The only files I've had 2D/3D hiccups (including symbols, polygons, etc) with have been those that were drafted in Screen Plane. I may very well be wrong. I'll look in to your advice though.

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

Many users are running M1 with 16 or 32 MB and not having any issues.

 

IFC or RVT imports with 300-700 MB vwx can be extremely painful to work

with on my M1 Mini 16 GB (as soon as Memory pressure get brownish ...).

Hard to view navigate and visibility changes as well as selecting or editing.

 

I would not go for anything less than 64 GB of memory for an Apple SoC

in general but I have not seen so far any proof that this would be save or

faster on a Studio Max or Ultra. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Thanks Zoomer. I reviewed the 2022 VWX requirements with both VW and Apple prior to purchase. Both told me I was more than covered. I need to start learning more about hardware and software... I really just want to draft. M2 should be out later this year. I'll research other options in the meantime.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, CW2020 said:

Thanks Zoomer. I reviewed the 2022 VWX requirements with both VW and Apple prior to purchase. Both told me I was more than covered. I need to start learning more about hardware and software... I really just want to draft. M2 should be out later this year. I'll research other options in the meantime.

 

 

I am a bit negative about the Studio as I see most (real) benchmarks

showing no well scaling between the base versions and the full specced

Ultras.

Maybe the Fusion connection of the Ultra does not yet work in many cases

and the cores and voltage are slowed down and waiting, although being at

50-60 °C only.

But how long will it take to change for macOS and Apps to adapt and optimize ?

8 years like until my dual GPU in Trash Can was used by anything other

than Luxmark ?

(Blender Alpha with AMD GPU activation a few weeks ago)

 

 

I was aware that my M1 Mini is a totally low spec device.

The problem is that those problematic files do not run smooth or make fun

on my PC either (Ryzen 3950X, 64 GB RAM, RX 6800 16 GB VRAM)

 

And BTW the same experiences with Bricscad.

 

So I have higher expectations about the M1 Max and Ultra without the 16 GB

limit and more memory throughput - I just have not yet seen any VW tests

with IFC and RVT imported files, if it really helps.

 

Self made/modeled VW files 

  • Like 2
Link to comment

Hey cd2020, maybe I was confused by something in your original post.  You said "My settings are 2D layer plane top plan. I copy this text and when I paste it and it's now 3D. Does anyone know why this happens?"

 

So, "layer plane" objects are not true 2d, they are 3d, but they are flat 3d so from the top they appear to be 2d.  If you look at them from the side, they will just look like a line because they are actually 3d.

 

I assume that when you paste a screen plane text object from an old file to a new one that is set to "layer plane," it may be copied in as a layer plane object, and look 3d from certain viewpoints.  In the version I'm currently using (2020), if my file is set to create objects in "Working Plane," it will ask when I paste a screen plane object, "Do you want to convert this to Layer Plane."  If I choose "yes," and check the box "do this without prompting," then from that point on all screen plane objects pasted into that file are automatically converted to layer plane - which, again, is actually a flat 3d object that looks like something painted on the floor from any viewpoint other than top.  Pat will be able to advise about how this behavior works in 2022, I haven't installed 2022 because just not worth all the trouble to convert all files, etc. (still waiting for those killer stairs and door/window parametric objects that actually do what we need!).

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Thanks P Retondo.

 

And yes, I understand that when you're in Layer Plane, it's technically 3D. The semantics around this discussion alone seem to cause confusion. And I know VWX has moved on from this, but I'm still working on files from earlier versions. But yes, if you're using objects with parametric info (walls, doors, etc) they are 3D objects. But for all intents, I don't remember having a single memorable conversation/consideration for this topic. I believe I and every studio I've worked with has used Layer Plane (if for no other reason than it's the default when you create a new file) exclusively. But over the past year I've been working on projects (all created by others) that are in Screen Plane and I'll routinely draft a polygon or create symbol or type text in Layer Plane, and I'll later find they're 3D. And I discover this because I'll often double click text or a polygon and it changes the perspective to a 3D view. So if you work in Screen Plane this just happens all the time? Plus, all of a sudden symbols I used with little thought in the past (such as ibeams) randomly disappear from my floor plans and reappear in the middle of nowhere... which I assume is related to Screen Plane. 

 

So if you were drafting (or training someone to) architectural construction documents [let's say 'flat' (Top Plan)], would you use Layer Plane or Screen Plane?

Link to comment

I knew I breached this topic before, but only now found the thread. And Pat of course presents a clear breakdown of Layer vs Screen Plane. It just seems confusing when it was never an issue/consideration before this past year. I'll do a deep dive into that explanation.

Link to comment

@CW2020,  Actually it is the other way around.  

 

Screen Plane objects are always aligned to the computer screen.  If you change the view  the objects in the drawing (both Layer Plane and 3D Plane) will move and Screen Plane will remain where they are on the screen.

 

Screen Plane objects have started the long road to deprecation. In VW2022 in new files you have to go to Document Preferences:Legacy 2D and turn on Screen Plane objects if you want them.

 

VW2022 has a new button in the Tool Bar called Align Working Plane to Current View.  This will give you a working plane that is equivalent to the computer screen. But the objects drawn there (if you have not active Screen Plane) will be Planar 3D objects (even lines, text, rectangles, circles). If you change the view, these objects will move with the view change.

 

There are things you can't do without Screen Plane, but you can create a very valid workflow using Sheet Layers without Screen Plane. Although objects you draw directly on a Sheet Layer are very similar to Screen Plane because you can't change the view of a Sheet Layer, only of Viewports placed on the Sheet Layer.

 

I am sure this is about a clear as mud, so ask additional questions and I will see if I can answer them.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
5 hours ago, CW2020 said:

So if you were drafting (or training someone to) architectural construction documents [let's say 'flat' (Top Plan)], would you use Layer Plane or Screen Plane?

 

 

I would recommend Layer Plane.

 

As long as you work strictly 2D only, you will do this usually in Top Plan View only.

(Like we did on paper in the past.

Like aligning your Sections and Elevations around the Top Plan so that you can snap to it)

 

And in case of a Top View (=XY) ... there isn't any difference behavior between

Top Plane vs Screen Plane.

 

The special behavior of Screen Plane objects only happens in any 3D View.

Like Isometrics, Side Views, ....

In this case Screen Objects will be fixed parallel to your monitor screen, meaning they will

always look at you, no matter you rotate the view.

And in my personal opinion, there are very rare use cases where this Screen Space behavior

makes sense.

(Something like adding Screen Space Text Annotations to 3D objects, so you can still read

them from all viewing directions (?))

 

 

I am not 100 % sure but I understand the new Screen Plane free workflows this way :

When you draw any 2D Object, it will be drawn on Layer Plane.

(Where Object Z = Z height of the Layer)

As soon as you move it in Z or rotate it around any other Axis than pure Z Axis,

it will change to 3D Plane.

2D Objects will also become 3D Plane when you draw 2D Elements while using a rotated

UCS or by drawing Auto Plane, on Planes that differ from Layer Plane.

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
8 hours ago, CW2020 said:

It just seems confusing when it was never an issue/consideration before this past year. I'll do a deep dive into that explanation.


For those of us who work in 3D, collaborating with people who don’t understand the difference between screen and layer planes has been the problem for years 😉

 

Kill the screen, long live the layer.

  • Like 4
Link to comment

Sorry CW, an old disagreement surfacing here, going back many years.  Although I don't use Layer Plane objects (with rare exceptions), for someone who works in 2d drafting, using Layer Plane has no disadvantage and is now favored by VW in that it is put forward as a preference.  You should have no problem using Layer Plane objects, but do be aware that unless you are in Top or Top/Plan view they will show their true colors as 3d objects flattened like Wile E. Coyote run over by that steamroller.  AutoCAD was always like this, and most AutoCAD drafters are completely unaware that their objects have a Z component.

 

Also bear in mind, to your original point, that the following can occur (in v2020 at least):  If an object is created in other than Top or Top/Plan view, is a "working plane" object (i.e., not screen plane), and is cut and pasted into a file that has Document Preferences/Plane Mode set to anything other than "Screen Plane only," that text when viewed from a top view will look like a line.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...