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5 ore fa, Matt Overton ha detto:

Hai un supporto con ventole integrate per il raffreddamento?

O il calore non tende ad essere un problema.

 

Absolutely not a problem. I use the stand only to have a better visibility

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On 3/24/2022 at 1:56 AM, zeno said:


on my experience, section viewport rendering takes max 30-35 gb and then they are correctly calculated. If I don’t turn off vw and reopen the file to do a second render, the memory going over 50. From 50  the memory request incres up to 190 GB but every time (trust me, there are months i’m trying to find a solution) without success. So: 35 GB after reopen vw, or 190 GB with s collaps

I went back and found that my memory leak problems (exactly like yours) started in VW2017 SP4 and it seemed to continue through VW 2019. I actually don't know how it resolved itself because I didn't post a solution in that thread. But it was suggested to reset VW preferences. 

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On 3/30/2022 at 6:22 PM, Sky said:

I went back and found that my memory leak problems (exactly like yours) started in VW2017 SP4 and it seemed to continue through VW 2019. I actually don't know how it resolved itself because I didn't post a solution in that thread. But it was suggested to reset VW preferences. 

Reading these considerations sincerely worries me a little. I thought it was a recent problem but I see that it is one of those problems that have been known for years. I have been running VB-183608 for months and it has been considered, but not fixed. It is clearly some major improvement that could be made. The biggest problem is that today it is not possible to update so many viewports during a period of user inactivity, such as overnight. Can you tell us on which files exactly this problem was happening to you? PS: I already reset user preferences hundred times.

 

Thank you

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On 3/28/2022 at 11:50 AM, erminio said:

 

Hi everyone guys,

very interesting discussion

Same problems of memory to me (iMac 27 2017 4,2Ghz i7, 40GB RAM)

For some big files (about 400MB and more), especially dealing with complex DTMs, have to go back to Vectorworks 2021 in order to move faster and avoid an annoying antialiasing viewport problem appeared in 2022

(I've to say that Vectorworks Sp.3 has solved that issue)

 

Anyway wrote this post only to say that when I see Vectorworks becomes too slow, instead of restart the whole app, I prefer to save the file and open the previous version to empty cache

This works to me and hope helps you too

Apri versione precedente.jpg

 

Am I right to think that the english-language version of this is "revert to saved"? If so - I think this has much the same effect as closing and reopening the file. At least in my case in VW2021, it does not have the effect of fully clearing the cache.

 

For example, if I have my file open with memory sitting at around 25GB, and I use "revert to saved", the memory usage dips to about 17GB, and then reverts to around 22GB. So maybe it releases some memory, but not much.

 

On the other hand, if I quite VW entirely, then restart it, before I have any files open, VW is only using about 1GB of memory. And when i reopen my file, it is using about 13GB (before I start working on it - when it starts rising again).

 

*edited to add - trying the same in VW2022, it seems that closing & reopening the file *does* clear most of the memory. So, VW2022 is a little better in this regard, in that it seems you can release the memory by closing & reopening the file rather than the whole application. Still not ideal though.

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On 3/28/2022 at 10:53 PM, jnr said:

Hey Mark:

 

Somehow I lucked out and got my hands on the Ultra with 64 gb when they randomly showed up at a nearby Apple store. Lo and behold, all my problems vaporized. zippy, os stable, graphics way faster. Can actually get some work done. Opted for that instead of suffering for another two months waiting for more ram. Drinking the Koolaid and waiting on the studio display. Not sure I could handle a 43"! Now to unload the iMac Pro....

 

Looks like you and @bcd have had the same experience of good results with the 64GB ultra.

 

What happens with the memory use when you are working on a complex file - does it seem to stay within that 64GB or can it still get into an ever-increasing state, well beyond 64GB?

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On 3/31/2022 at 10:29 PM, zeno said:

Reading these considerations sincerely worries me a little. I thought it was a recent problem but I see that it is one of those problems that have been known for years. I have been running VB-183608 for months and it has been considered, but not fixed. It is clearly some major improvement that could be made. The biggest problem is that today it is not possible to update so many viewports during a period of user inactivity, such as overnight. Can you tell us on which files exactly this problem was happening to you? PS: I already reset user preferences hundred times.

 

Thank you

I think I may have done a clean install of VW to resolve the problem. It was obvious that others weren't having this issue, so there was a specific problem with mine. I believe I first made a new user and did a clean install to test it. It's definitely some kind of corruption in your set up because this type of memory leak is not typical for most users. I haven't had the problem come up since then and my projects have only gotten bigger with more complex renderings since then.

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3 hours ago, Sky said:

I think I may have done a clean install of VW to resolve the problem. It was obvious that others weren't having this issue, so there was a specific problem with mine. I believe I first made a new user and did a clean install to test it. It's definitely some kind of corruption in your set up because this type of memory leak is not typical for most users. I haven't had the problem come up since then and my projects have only gotten bigger with more complex renderings since then.

What version of VW are you currently running - is it 2018 as per your signature?

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Already reinstalled 3 times. Every vw component following istructions on https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/articles.html/articles/how-to/uninstallation/uninstalling-vectorworks-r268/

the problem persist only on a big file. But several times when I was teaching other people it happened that to continue working with vectorworks it was necessary to restart everything after several section viewports. Imemory remains busy after a complex process i think. Having a M1 Ultra with 128 GB memory can only postponed this process if no way is found to clear memory when terminating a complex viewport computation process. i was very worried about not being able to finish a job with m1max and 64GB.  I was able to find a method.  the point is that I can work with it without stressing the machine as much as it works.  but if I don't restart vectorworks, as I said, I go from 35-40 GB directly to 190 GB.  maybe it is when I have an ultra m1 I can do two sections, certainly not three

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4 hours ago, zeno said:

Already reinstalled 3 times. Every vw component following istructions on https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/articles.html/articles/how-to/uninstallation/uninstalling-vectorworks-r268/

the problem persist only on a big file. But several times when I was teaching other people it happened that to continue working with vectorworks it was necessary to restart everything after several section viewports. Imemory remains busy after a complex process i think. Having a M1 Ultra with 128 GB memory can only postponed this process if no way is found to clear memory when terminating a complex viewport computation process. i was very worried about not being able to finish a job with m1max and 64GB.  I was able to find a method.  the point is that I can work with it without stressing the machine as much as it works.  but if I don't restart vectorworks, as I said, I go from 35-40 GB directly to 190 GB.  maybe it is when I have an ultra m1 I can do two sections, certainly not three

 

The files in which you have issues; were they created in VW2022 or in earlier versions?

 

One thing I have noticed in my own files with similar problems, is that it's worst when I try to view a sheet layer that would have been created in a previous version of VW, and one that I may not have looked at or edited since converting to VW2021 or 2022.

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5 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

The files in which you have issues; were they created in VW2022 or in earlier versions?

 

One thing I have noticed in my own files with similar problems, is that it's worst when I try to view a sheet layer that would have been created in a previous version of VW, and one that I may not have looked at or edited since converting to VW2021 or 2022.

Work started on 2021 but 70% was done on 2022

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22 hours ago, line-weight said:

What version of VW are you currently running - is it 2018 as per your signature?

Sorry - I didn't realize I still have a signature. I can't figure out where that is located to change it. 

I am running VW2022 SP3 on a 14-inch MacBook Pro M1 Max.

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Here's a screenshot of opening UE5 for the first time. Sharing this is as an example of why VW capability is only 1 factor in speccing a new computer. The GPU and all 16 threads have been pegged the entire time it loads (mostly preparing shaders) which is going on an hour now.

 

At some point in the lifespan of Mac Studio owners, lots of VW users are going to be dipping their toes in TM and UE (both free BTW), so GPU, RAM, and multicore could all be bottlenecks (in that order).

 

The flip side of that is that UE is capable of using all of that hardware. There's nothing worse than the sinking feeling you get on a new machine when you see the SBBOD for the first time, and your hardware is idling.

 

Anyway, if your machine can handle UE or TM, it'll be more than enough for VW, so users can back into a budget based on those parameters. Same for Cinema, Rhino, Blender, Adobe everything... 

 

1174219871_ScreenShot2022-04-06at1_09.02PM(2).thumb.png.3dad2b0668700c3dda96356c4edb5fdf.png99301500_ScreenShot2022-04-06at1_15_31PM.thumb.png.5a6f1dbd9fba7a5b89caa553e664a416.png

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  • 4 weeks later...

https://architosh.com/2022/05/the-gift-that-keeps-on-giving-vectorworks-talks-apple-silicon/

 

What I gather from this interview is to go with the highest amount of RAM possible, because Vectorworks will take all available space.

 

Quote

That is why 32GB and 64GB with M1 Pro, M1 Max, and now M1 Ultra are so impressive—they can handle even the largest of BIM design files.

Seeing the issues posted on this forum, it seems that even small files will cause problems though.

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2022 at 10:49 PM, Mark Aceto said:


M1 Extreme

 

And they’ll also announce the triumphant return of the AirPort Extreme 😉

 

Well, today was a bust 😕

 

So far, the fastest multi-core Mac CPU is only 1/3 as fast as a 3-year-old Threadripper.

 

Here's hoping the missing GPU driver optimization for real time ray tracing in TM will be announced in one of these Metal 3 sessionsUntil then, the Studio stays in the box... 

 

Edited by Mark Aceto
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On 5/5/2022 at 10:23 AM, elepp said:

 

This article seems to be an unquestioning parroting of what VW tells the writer, so effectively just a kind of press release.

 

What it mainly seems to be saying though, is that we should expect various improvements in VW2023, rather than that they already exist. They talk about an upgrade of "shaded" (ex-OpenGL) view, and speeding up things like section viewports.

 

It seems that although VW2022 shaded view already runs on Metal rather than OpenGL, they aren't actually claiming any improvements yet. Which matches my experience, where in fact "shaded" view is actually worse on VW2022 than previous versions. Likewise that we don't yet see much of a speed-up in section viewports (which quite a few people seem to be having problems with in VW2022).

 

Am I reading that right?

 

I find it quite frustrating because VW2022 was marketed as the first release "optimised" for M1 and running natively, but I don't really feel that's what we've got in reality. And this article seems to suggest we actually have to wait for VW2023 for that.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

So far, the fastest multi-core Mac CPU is only 1/3 as fast as a 3-year-old Threadripper.

Yeah I was really hoping they would tell us their plans for Mac Pro yesterday, but they clearly had far too much else to get through.

 

Interesting that they upgraded the 13" MacBook Pro to the M2, while leaving the 14" and 16" on the M1 architecture (granted, Pro + Max versions). I still have a hard time believing they're going to release the Mac Pro with M1 chips, as so many websites say. Surely it'll be an M2 Ultra or better.

Edited by Christiaan
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Christiaan said:

Yeah I was really hoping they would tell us their plans for Mac Pro yesterday, but they clearly had far too much else to get through.

 

Interesting that they upgraded the 13" MacBook Pro to the M2, while leaving the 14" and 16" on the M1 architecture (granted, Pro + Max versions). I still have a hard time believing they're going to release the Mac Pro with M1 chips, as so many websites say. Surely it'll be an M2 Ultra or better.


Not only did they not announce the Mac Pro (case), they didn’t announce the 4-die chip that would have closed the gap on Threadripper. If they had good news, surely they would have shared it.

 

Now that the M2 Air has lapped the mythical M1 Pro, it wouldn’t make sense to release a M1 chip in the Pro. But who knows with Tim Crook? All we have to go on based on past performance would be a M2 Ultra but that would be pretty weak (and not distinguish itself from the M2 Studio, so pretty unlikely).

 

Also, is the M2 single core clock speed the same as the M1???

 

I’m convinced that the 13” Emoji Bar Pro and Apple Watch 3 exist to clear out old inventory, like how Anthony Bourdain explained that Friday's fresh fish order is Monday's seafood stew.

 

I love that most of the announcements were about enhancements to existing features but the thing I was most looking forward to was finally getting a sense of their SoC roadmap.

 

At this point, I’m so sick of their shenanigans (and marketing charts), that I may just keep my 2019 MBP for day-to-day and onsite work, and get a PC for heavy lifting and raytracing. I just wish I could make an informed decision instead of a wild guess.

 

Since 2015, all we’ve wanted were AMD CPU’s and NVIDIA GPU’s. It’s amazing the lengths they’ll go to not give their customers what they need because of what they think we should want.

 

Another year, another carrot stick… 

 

Edited by Mark Aceto
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6 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

This article seems to be an unquestioning parroting of what VW tells the writer, so effectively just a kind of press release.

 

What it mainly seems to be saying though, is that we should expect various improvements in VW2023, rather than that they already exist. They talk about an upgrade of "shaded" (ex-OpenGL) view, and speeding up things like section viewports.

 

It seems that although VW2022 shaded view already runs on Metal rather than OpenGL, they aren't actually claiming any improvements yet. Which matches my experience, where in fact "shaded" view is actually worse on VW2022 than previous versions. Likewise that we don't yet see much of a speed-up in section viewports (which quite a few people seem to be having problems with in VW2022).

 

Am I reading that right?

 

I find it quite frustrating because VW2022 was marketed as the first release "optimised" for M1 and running natively, but I don't really feel that's what we've got in reality. And this article seems to suggest we actually have to wait for VW2023 for that.


If you’re going to read the tea leaves, a more realistic expectation would be:

 

v2022 was a race to make VW compatible (run natively) with M1.

 

Future versions will continue to be optimized for M series.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:


If you’re going to read the tea leaves, a more realistic expectation would be:

 

v2022 was a race to make VW compatible (run natively) with M1.

 

Future versions will continue to be optimized for M series.

 

I'm sure that may be the reality. However, that's not how I recall 2022 being marketed to us.

 

VW2022 was supposed to bring improved performance, thanks to running natively on M1 (as well as some other stuff such as the transition to Metal).

 

However, my real world experience is not that VW2022 brings significant performance improvements over VW2021. In fact it brings additional problems, which means I am not yet using it, although I remain hopeful that they might be resolved in future SPs.

 

Actually I'm not really sure we've had anyone on this thread say that they have found significant performance benefits in VW2022 compared to VW2021 - or have I missed something?

Edited by line-weight
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2 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

I'm sure that may be the reality. However, that's not how I recall 2022 being marketed to us.

 

VW2022 was supposed to bring improved performance, thanks to running natively on M1 (as well as some other stuff such as the transition to Metal).

 

However, my real world experience is not that VW2022 brings significant performance improvements over VW2021. In fact it brings additional problems, which means I am not yet using it, although I remain hopeful that they might be resolved in future SPs.

 

Actually I'm not really sure we've had anyone on this thread say that they have found significant performance benefits in VW2022 compared to VW2021 - or have I missed something?

 

That's fair. Among my close VW friends and colleagues, the marketing in general is a point of contention, and we tend to zone it out (so as not to get triggered by the super slick UI in the Cinema4D-rendered videos every September).

 

Then again, I tend to zone out all marketing. I mean the fact that Apple's notorious performance graphs have become a meme because they're literally the exact same graphic every single time (and they just do a find & replace):

 

Apple Graph Meme Generator

 

254845200_ScreenShot2022-06-08at8_15_13AM.thumb.png.296deb612d94e8f64a83f2ee740a6697.png

 

That said, the focus of that Architosh interview was the CTO speaking to the engineering.

 

For context, and for fun, I just googled "marketing vs engineering" and the second hit happened to be from Solidworks:

 

Marketing vs. Engineering: 5 Rules For Peaceful Coexistence

 

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Posted (edited)

Just read through this entire post in a hope of knowing what m1 to be looking to get to replace my hackintosh…

 

….think I’ll just keep on using it for now! Just sounds like a big mess. I have very little faith in VW sorting out memory issues just like any other ongoing issues unfortunately. If I though I could keep working on VW2021 for next 6 years I might just cancel my VSS.🤣🤣

 

big sur, 24gb, Vega 56 with Vw2021 is working fine (2022 on the other hand - a load of beachballing and crashing to login screen multiple times a day)

 

Don’t see Apple sorting out retracing in TM anytime soon - and with lack of oculus vr compatibility on MacOS, I just bought a lenovo 3070 legion 7 and laptop with 2tb ssd and 32gb just to do TM 2022 raytracing and VR walkabouts with clients.

Edited by neal-2002
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1 hour ago, neal-2002 said:

Just read through this entire post in a hope of knowing what m1 to be looking to get to replace my hackintosh…

 

….think I’ll just keep on using it for now!

 

Guessing you can also run Windows apps in Bootcamp (unless that's a limitation of a Hackintosh).

 

1 hour ago, neal-2002 said:

I have very little faith in VW sorting out memory issues just like any other ongoing issues unfortunately

 

This could be purely anecdotal but I thought it was interesting that Apple removed the 5gb RAM limit on iPad's running M1. Seems like they "gated" apps from leaking because of the SoC.

 

1 hour ago, neal-2002 said:

If I though I could keep working on VW2021 for next 6 years I might just cancel my VSS.🤣🤣

 

Spiciness aside, this is a very salient point, and one that comes up regularly in conversations with nerd friends. I installed 1Password 8 over the weekend, and immediately "downgraded" back to 7.9.5, and plan to use it indefinitely. However, with so many apps moving to the SaaS model, that's not always an option. And with valuable improvements to Braceworks and ConnectCAD each release, I'm on the hook. Maybe a better example is how Apple tie their native apps to the OS (except for Safari). I would have stayed on Sierra if I could individually update each app of my choosing.

 

1 hour ago, neal-2002 said:

big sur, 24gb, Vega 56 with Vw2021 is working fine (2022 on the other hand - a load of beachballing and crashing to login screen multiple times a day)

 

That's interesting. I've been dealing with a lot more Force Quits with v2022. My 3-year old MBP (which is 9 years old in PC years) is starting to feel long in the tooth. I'm probably gonna take the Studio out of the box this weekend, and will report back with any performance improvements or issues.

 

I'm starting to feel like that black sheep character with a gambling problem in the family drama. "I swear this is the last Mac... " but then I keep crawling back to my abusive captor year after year. #stockholmsyndrome

 

1 hour ago, neal-2002 said:

Don’t see Apple sorting out retracing in TM anytime soon - and with lack of oculus vr compatibility on MacOS, I just bought a lenovo 3070 legion 7 and laptop with 2tb ssd and 32gb just to do TM 2022 raytracing and VR walkabouts with clients.

 

If I don't take it out of the box, my dream is a TR 3970x with a RTX 3080 desktop for the exact same reasons (plus I could run Windows apps) but I haven't worked out the KVM for 1 monitor shared with the MBP. I'm still on the fence for a few more days... 

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12 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

Guessing you can also run Windows apps in Bootcamp (unless that's a limitation of a Hackintosh).

 

The other way round.

Of course the PC can run Windows natively.

It is more that the Hackintosh macOS is kind of a hacked Apple OS running via Bootcamp.

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