Lighting Ladder Tool

[Samuel_Ellis]

Hi yawl,

 

Has anyone worked with the ladder tool and connected it to a piece of truss? My typical work around for this is to put a point load in for the weight of the ladder. I got some time for this project so I figured I would try a new method to make the model better. 

 

Thanks,
Sam

[jcogdell]

Hi Sam

The lighting pipe ladder doesn't really work with Braceworks,
Personally I use it for layout and documentation but like you use point loads to represent the ladder for Braceworks calculation.

I've not managed to find a good work around for this myself either.


 

[Samuel_Ellis]

Thanks Jess, I was assuming as much. Glad to know I am not the only one struggling with this.

[Projx_CA]

Is there a reason the selected loads don't SUM in "Load Overview"?

 

Since it's not really possible to use the Ladder tool with Braceworks, I just want a quick way of adding up the vertical load so I can manually add the weight to a pair of point loads. 

 

Any way to quickly select and sum the weights?

Edited August 11, 2022 by Projx_CA

[Pat Stanford]

Complete guess, but since they include the unit mark, it is likely that they are formatted as text instead of numbers.

[jcogdell]

@Projx_CA
This is goes back to the issue of the lighting pipe ladder not being Braceworks enabled.
In the load detail pane the lights are highlighted red to show that they are not hung from/connected with a Braceworks structural object.
This means that although they display in the load detail view and each has an associated weight, they do not apply that weight to the rigging system, this is why the force column is empty.
In the load overview they are present as load categories because you have them selected but none are connected to the rigging system so no total load for them is calculated, displayed or applied to the rigging system.


 

[jcogdell]

There are potential workarounds that you can try

1. use a point load to represent the total weight of the lights and ladder, in your case since you are using 2 hoists I would add a short pipe for the hoists and point load to attach to
2. Another option is to try converting the ladder into a hanging position, I'm not sure how well this would work as it would still not have the full structural data in the background for how the ladder itself will behave under load but it should give your the correct loads acting on the hoists (I'm not 100% sure though)

[Projx_CA]

On 8/12/2022 at 2:11 AM, jcogdell said:

Use a point load to represent the total weight of the lights and ladder, in your case since you are using 2 hoists I would add a short pipe for the hoists and point load to attach to

 

Yes, this is the way....just need a quicker workaround to tally that point load.

 

[Scott C. Parker]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:44 PM, Projx_CA said:

Yes, this is the way....just need a quicker workaround to tally that point load.

If you want a non-braceworks worksheet with all the items on the system in question, @Sam Jones has a tool to gather all items and add them to a worksheet with weights.

[Sam Jones]

The command Scott is talking about is called "Collect & Total Weight".  It will create a worksheet and list all the selected objects with their weights, both imperial and metric, and total both.  Objects with no weight are listed and colored red.  You can enter your own weight amounts to correct "0" entries or override other weights you feel are inaccurate.  The command is one of the 140 plus commands in AutoPlot Tools for Spotlight.

HTH

[Cristiano Alves]

Good morning.

I'm trying to use something like these accessories below for an stage design.

 

I think it will be with the use of the tool:

Lighting pipe ladder

From what I see here, there was no way to make Hanging of this object in a normal truss.

 

Does this "problem" still remain?

I tried and no "red" position ever appears.

[spettitt]

14 hours ago, Cristiano Alves said:

Good morning.

I'm trying to use something like these accessories below for an stage design.

 

I think it will be with the use of the tool:

Lighting pipe ladder

From what I see here, there was no way to make Hanging of this object in a normal truss.

 

Does this "problem" still remain?

I tried and no "red" position ever appears.

 

Personally, I don't use the Lighting Pipe Ladder tool. It seems more theatre-focused, and can't hang on truss. It can't use actual ladder products either. If I remember correctly, I think the alignment of a fixture on the rung might use the Vectorworks 'theatre' alignment (at the geometric centre of the tube) and not the Braceworks alignment - underside of the tube, like a Truss symbol. So, I could to make a separate copy of my fixture symbols with a 24mm offset so the clamp attaches naturally, but I don't really want to.

 

I add a point load to the truss and 'Show Symbol' with the manufacturer symbols of the ladder - multiples nested in to a larger symbol if needed, with some master snap points for fast assembly. This isn't ideal though, as moving the truss doesn't take any of the fixtures with it. It's still the best option right now IMO.

 

I've experimented with making my ladder symbol and it's fixtures a hanging position (which I don't use very much), but the hanging position doesn't include the weight of the ladder, so that's not much use at the moment. In the future, I'd like to see hanging positions able to report the weight of rigging components inside them in the total, and for a new connection object that can connect a hanging position to a truss using a chosen symbol (like the two couplers in the image above).

[Cristiano Alves]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:50 AM, spettitt said:

 

Personally, I don't use the Lighting Pipe Ladder tool. It seems more theatre-focused, and can't hang on truss. It can't use actual ladder products either. If I remember correctly, I think the alignment of a fixture on the rung might use the Vectorworks 'theatre' alignment (at the geometric centre of the tube) and not the Braceworks alignment - underside of the tube, like a Truss symbol. So, I could to make a separate copy of my fixture symbols with a 24mm offset so the clamp attaches naturally, but I don't really want to.

 

I add a point load to the truss and 'Show Symbol' with the manufacturer symbols of the ladder - multiples nested in to a larger symbol if needed, with some master snap points for fast assembly. This isn't ideal though, as moving the truss doesn't take any of the fixtures with it. It's still the best option right now IMO.

 

I've experimented with making my ladder symbol and it's fixtures a hanging position (which I don't use very much), but the hanging position doesn't include the weight of the ladder, so that's not much use at the moment. In the future, I'd like to see hanging positions able to report the weight of rigging components inside them in the total, and for a new connection object that can connect a hanging position to a truss using a chosen symbol (like the two couplers in the image above).

Indeed, the issue of the total weight not appearing is the most concerning, as the rest could potentially be resolved by grouping these objects.

What would be the best approach for this? Should we manually sum up the weights of the machines and input a Rigging Load?

 

Is it worth reporting this in the requested tools?

[spettitt]

At the moment, my approach is to manually sum the weight of the ladder components themselves and everything hanging on it, and set that as the weight of the rigging Point Load object.

 

The interconnection of ladders to truss (actually, the interconnection of various different sub-structures/hanging positions to truss) is an existing request logged at the moment. The ability for hanging positions to report their total weight including symbol-based metalwork components is also logged as a request.

[Cristiano Alves]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:32 PM, spettitt said:

At the moment, my approach is to manually sum the weight of the ladder components themselves and everything hanging on it, and set that as the weight of the rigging Point Load object.

 

The interconnection of ladders to truss (actually, the interconnection of various different sub-structures/hanging positions to truss) is an existing request logged at the moment. The ability for hanging positions to report their total weight including symbol-based metalwork components is also logged as a request.

 

@spettitt 

I just submitted a request for this feature. If you'd like, it would help if you vote for your interest on the request forum: