not possible to change path of extrude along path

[frv]

Am I correct that a once created path for an extrude along path object can not be edited afterwards ?

What I ever I try to do to a path VW prohibits any changes to the path object. What I do now its convert an extrude along path to a subdivision with an iteration of zero and then I can edit again. Its one of the main frustrations we have. at the office modelling windowframes etc. Extrudes along path are not editable at all.

Macbook M1 16Gb. VW2022

Edited February 7, 2022 by frv

[Tom W.]

7 minutes ago, frv said:

Am I correct that a once created path for an extrude along path object can not be edited afterwards ?

 

No. You should be able to edit it. 

[Hans-Olav]

Hi @frv

 

I just tried to create a EAP. When double clicking on the object i get a option to edit the path or the profile.

If I choose the path I can edit it.

 

 

[frv]

Great. But in my case the edit always results in VW telling me that the edited path object is not valid and asks me to delete it. Sometimes it does do an edit but 99% of the time editing a path is prohibited. Its been mentioned here on the forums before. In other CAD packages this is a very normal often used command but in VW is disfunctional.

I am not talking complex shapes. Just a simple rectangular for window frame. Won't work. After the extrude you can't change the size of the rectangular anymore. You can drag the separate points a bit but there is no way to do this with any kind of exact dimensions.

Edited February 7, 2022 by frv

[Tom W.]

@frv I have had this once or twice too + I don't totally understand why. I think changing the view has allowed me to proceed + edit it (i.e. changing from 3D view to orthogonal view) or using Selection Tool instead of Reshape Tool to manipulate the path object. I do a lot of editing EAP geometry around doors/windows this way + have never not been able to do it at all.

[zoomer]

^ this.

 

AFAIK,

everything 2D, e.g. Rectangles, when used as a Path for EAP,

will be instantly converted into NURBS.

(Which means you lose all 2D manipulation comfort)

 

This, together with the clunky control over Profile's orientation to

Path, let me avoid EAPs wherever possible.

 

[Tom W.]

The NURBS in the screenshot, if changed to Front view, you can easily + accurately resize using Selection Tool + middle selection handles

Edited February 7, 2022 by Tom W.

[frv]

Tx, that's it. Avoid the extrude along path. Normally you should be able to just change a dimension but with nurbs all you can do is make a new path. But the problem is that once you create a new path you need to recreate the whole extrude along a path since you can't copy paste a new path where the old was is.

[frv]

There are no middle handles in a nurbs rectangular.

[frv]

But I can group the nurbs and then it works. Clunky to say the least. But I got some where now. Tx for the efforts to help me out here.

[Tom W.]

Use the Selection Tool not Reshape Tool:

You can specify dims in floating data bar

[frv]

The selection tool does not show any handle bars for nurbs. I have no idea how to get what your screenshot does. Maybe a PC versus Mac thing. Oh, I seen you are on Mac too. well, then its a mistery how you get handlebars.

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by frv

[frv]

Well tried it again but than often I get the invalid path problem or the edited path does not relate to the extruded result. I think on my m1 and 2022 this is a bug. It should work but it does not reliable.

[line-weight]

2 hours ago, zoomer said:

^ this.

 

AFAIK,

everything 2D, e.g. Rectangles, when used as a Path for EAP,

will be instantly converted into NURBS.

(Which means you lose all 2D manipulation comfort)

 

This, together with the clunky control over Profile's orientation to

Path, let me avoid EAPs wherever possible.

 

 

Same here. Working with EAPs is very frustrating.

 

As others have said, it *is* possible to edit path objects but it is affected by the view direction in ways that I never quite understand (and is not documented as far as I know).

 

And when they are converted to NURBS this often makes editing awkward. I think this can happen with the profile object as well as the path?

 

You can run into all sorts of problems if you edit the path in such a way that you move its "start" point because it changes the origin.

 

At times, when trying to do something a bit complicated, I have resorted to keeping a "spare" copy of the path geometry somewhere outside of the EAP object, so that I have the option of editing that and then using it to replace the old path object inside the EAP.

 

 

[mjm]

2 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

Same here. Working with EAPs is very frustrating.

 

At times, when trying to do something a bit complicated, I have resorted to keeping a "spare" copy of the path geometry somewhere outside of the EAP object, so that I have the option of editing that and then using it to replace the old path object inside the EAP.

 

 

@line-weightI have to agree here. for some projects I keep a morgue file in which I develop objects and then bring them over to the working file. then it's easy to create & save these kinds of objects so as to avoid tedious rebuilds of polylines converted to nurbs.

[Ride]

Whenever I adjust a path, I make sure I'm in a top/plan view (if possible), and then I place 2D vertices at the corners of my path. Then I move them to where the path needs to go, and then just pull the path handles to the vertices. Last I delete the vertices.

 

Not ideal, but at least reliable for me. But I usually just use EAP for crown moulding and finished bases on cabinets, so top/plan works well for viewing the path.

[Your Name Here]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:13 AM, frv said:

Well tried it again but than often I get the invalid path problem or the edited path does not relate to the extruded result. I think on my m1 and 2022 this is a bug. It should work but it does not reliable.

 

Maybe you should post a file with the problem geometry in it for us to look at.  I used to find EAPs hard to work with, but not once I learned how to use them properly.

 

If you simply have a rectangular path that you want to expand, the easiest way to do so is to:

1. enter the EAP path editor

2. simply draw a new rectangle from the origin of the original path to the desired dimensions

3. delete the old path

4. exit the editor.

 

Hope it helps.  Also, see this:

 

[HEengineering]

I think the path needs to be a poly-line. Try drawing your rectangle and then covert it to a poly-line>then extrude along path. I too typically have no issue editing a path.

[willofmaine]

Unless you have a very compelling reason to do so, absolutely do not use the "Fix Profile" option when creating an EAP (tempting as that may be).  This literally establishes a 3D relationship between the path and the profile.  It's possible when editing the profile, but easier and probably much more common when editing the path, to create a "temporary" situation in which the profile and path define geometry that simply doesn't work.  While YOU and the rest of us might know that you're trying to create legitimate geometry, sadly, you can't get from the path to the profile (or vice versa) in order to coordinate the profile and path as would be necessary to ultimately create your geometry.  In an ideal world, we'd be able to edit the path and profile simultaneously, in the same workspace, just as they are created.  Then it would be a non-issue.  Also avoid "Lock Profile Plane" unless you know why and for what you're using it...

 

I highly recommend the following for working with EAPs:

1.) Always draw both the path and the profile in Top/Plan view.  Paths should be (and usually are by default) clockwise; keep that in mind when creating the profile.

2.) Usually I'll leave the path at Z=0, and in a side view draw a rectangle to represent the displacement of where I want, say, a crown molding with respect to the path (typically edge of wall at floor), and then I'll copy that into the EAP's profile, select everything, Zoom out*, and use "move by points" to move everything.

3.) When drawn in Top/Plan (or even Top) view, rectangular paths can be temporarily converted to groups** in path edit mode to easily change their width and/or height numerically (in the OIP, in Top/Plan view).  That's even when the EAP has been rotated in 3D space.

4.) To edit more complex paths, I always just decompose them (Modify > Decompose), move whichever pieces I want, reconnect things, and then recompose them again (Modify > Compose).  Sometimes it's necessary to make sure they don't change direction.

 

EAP paths are always NURBS curves (and thus annoying to edit).  They can be created from planar shapes (squares, circles, etc.), polygons, polylines, 3D polygons, and, well, NURBS curves.  When creating with 3D paths, it's time to start thinking about "Fix Profile" and "Lock Profile Plane."  But that's another realm of misery...

 

HTH!

 

*Sadly, it seems impossible to paste something into the profile of an EAP where you want it, so it's necessary to zoom out to find it.  Also, it's impossible to paste-in-place between EAP profiles because, evidently, while things like solids and auto hybrids annoyingly have their own origins, EAP's for whatever reason annoyingly don't share their paths as a common origin...

**Of course, I often forget to ungroup before exiting, but if you pay attention to the dire warnings, you're given an opportunity to go back and ungroup.

[willofmaine]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:29 AM, line-weight said:

You can run into all sorts of problems if you edit the path in such a way that you move its "start" point because it changes the origin.

Most likely that's due to a fixed profile.  I highly recommend avoiding the "Fix Profile" option whenever you can!  Often the fixed profile is a quicker and easier way to initially create your EAP, but it then haunts you forever afterwards...

[thinkingpencil]

The advice above to be careful about path direction is SO important. I find all goes well if:- Directions and working plane are as below. And the profile is a polygon not a rectangle (in this workflow). Worth practising in my view. Saves me time now I used this complex command more often.

[HEengineering]

While VW can be intuitive one of the more challenging items Ive come across is making the path that has not just x,y but also z axis?

 

Anyone have pointers for this?

 

I often do it in an iso view. If you have a path that goes on an angle like like x,y that is the hardest of all. Often I find myself resorting to applying a working plane. Or drawing each segment prior then composing "the path" 

[frv]

What I now do is create geometry using the EAP and then convert it to subdivision with 0 segments. After that I can edit the geometry as I like. This is useful for mostly window frames that go around a corner. Editing a EAP as it is is not possible in any predictable way and to time consuming.

Edited March 20, 2022 by frv

[line-weight]

On 3/2/2022 at 8:58 PM, HEengineering said:

While VW can be intuitive one of the more challenging items Ive come across is making the path that has not just x,y but also z axis?

 

Anyone have pointers for this?

 

I often do it in an iso view. If you have a path that goes on an angle like like x,y that is the hardest of all. Often I find myself resorting to applying a working plane. Or drawing each segment prior then composing "the path" 

 

In that scenario I tend to draw as a 3d polygon then convert to NURBS, or as a NURBS curve with degree "1" if I want straight segments.

 

I'll snap to existing geometry to make sure it's passing through the right points. I might place some 3d locii as guides, if there's no existing geometry in the right places. I usually draw in a perspective view.

 

I do use the "compose" method quite often though - especially if I've extracted parts of the path from other objects.

Edited March 21, 2022 by line-weight

[line-weight]

By the way, recently I was having much frustration (as usual) getting an EAP to work and eventually I worked out that the problem was that the profile polygon was not quite planar (one of the vertices had snapped to a point just off the plane).

 

While that may be something that is potentially preventable by better drawing practices on my part, it strikes me as something that VW ought to be able to tell you, when it tells you that the EAP can't be generated. But instead you just get the general "can't do this" method which gives you no clue as to what might be wrong. A message saying "profile object is not planar" would save large amounts of time and frustration.