Task manager : not working at all

[blimey]

Ok. This time I give up.

The Task manager doesn't work at all.

I was so happy it sounded just what we needed.

But It's just impossible to use. Less to customize !!! i've tried editing it manually, and with a table... It just doesn't work!!!. Doesnt let you set the visibility of classes and layers.. jumps to other view. Let you only activate sheets... Well either this tool is a big bug... or there's something really basic I've missed! Please help me I'm dead with frustration !

[Robert Anderson]

The task manager is really oriented more to an older way of using the program -- you pick the saved view you're want to work on, then pick the task (that has been entered in the TM database) and it will set the active layer and class correpsonding to that. Tell me how you're trying to use it..?

[blimey]

Hi Robert,

That's more or less the way I try to use it, except that teh "older way of using the program does not apply at all".

Here are some info specific to us :

1. we're starting the use of vector works with V.11.5. I'm trying to set on a brand new drawing system for the office from scratch. Every body here is quite young (between 22 and 35, pretty ok with almost all kind of softs but new to VW. We Just bought 3 seats of Architect with RW and 1 seat of Landmark with RW the Idea was to install a whole office standard base on the use of VW +C4D.

2. As the idea was to built the whole organisation of the office on new (and GOOD)basis, I studied very carefully all the docs (except the Vector script part that I've only started)and did all the learning CD's (VW1 VW2, Arch, Land, RW). I'm not convinced that the reality matches the advertisement for the followings :

3. I decided to use workgroup referencing, drawing each floor on separate layers and then referencing them in one presentation file for presentation in sheets layers. despite the fact that i found sheets heavy to manipulate (updating 3D takes time, couldn't put 3 very complex 3D section of a landscape on the same sheet as the computer could only render 2 out of 3(It's P4, 3.2G with 1024MB RAM!!!). Workgroup referencing is also not very flexible with the use of render work as the texture cannot be mapped. It shoud be mapped once in the final files but his doesn't work as hte object are locked. So one have to apply textures in each files... without applying then in the class attribute as those are override by the setting in the final file. this ruins the whole ideao of the classes attributes.

3. I used Standard naming to match our office standards. And that's were it started to bug (I didn't diminish the numbers of classes or anything I only translated some names into french as our office is international french, german, belgian and chinese). The Standard naming works for resetting the names of layers and classes, but when you run create standard viewport after it also creates a set of layers that seems to correspond to old versions of VW (presentation layers). Those layers are not created when standard naming is not used.

3. Standard naming also bugs with the task manager which then mixes sheet names and saved view names. My conclusion is that it comes from this creation of presentation sheet layers in the design layers tab. So I've tried to correct the problem manually by editing the task.txt file. it works only partially as Task Manager doesn't seem very adapted for workgroup referencing, which is a pity as I think the potential of TM is real for group working, not for someone working on a file with all his drawings...

I also find the database pretty obscure to use. It took me a while to figure it out. The edition didn't work from within VW (strange things occured including computer crashes...). I had to open it with Excel.

4. It is very difficult to avoid people creating and saving their own saved view (with personal, random names)... This also confuses the Task Manager, especially if someone deleted a saved view...

5. If you run the Task Manager while in a sheet layers, then it lists tasks that let you only chose to do thing on the sheet layers even once you're back in a design layers...

...

Very long list you see. And there is much more. I keep telling myself that I need to give up this stupid tool as it works so badly. However, time and again I do come back to it as it would be such a great idea if it could work properly!

I'm not sure about what i'm going to do next. I've got the opportunity to set up a clean system for the office without problem of legacy. yet lot of the new tools (TM, Standard naming,class attribtes DTM model) seems to have problems (not working properly, crashing...)and I do not know (have) the old tools with my version. VERY frustrating!!! Lot of object from the palette also seems mixed up with library plug in symbols... not very clear for me.

IN FACT, I think that the problem of VW is that its whole logic is not yet adapted to workgroup use. it works very well (I think, I haven't checked) for stand alone. It messes up when it comes to people working together on big projects...

I'm coming from autocad background and I'm convinced of the potential of VW, but I think those needs to be improved. And I don't think it is a good idea to have tools that are so hybrid (mix of old and new versions...)

So it seems that my question is much larger than the Task manager. Especially when you think "workgroup". The question is more : How to set up a good workgroup working system with VW11.5. Lot of the advertsed tools seem not coherent in their use when it comes to sharing files and info. This also goes back to my question of updating classes for referenced files and sharing task manager. It is all about allowing "COHERENCE" between users. Setting Standards... updating them and so on...

Waiting for your reply,

Li Mei

[Robert Anderson]

Li Mei, a couple of comments:

1. While the Task Manager works for the old non-viewport way of working, we are moving away from it (and moving more towards a simpler model with viewports and auto-classing).

2. It's very difficult to give you a single answer for the best way to structure a project with workgroup referencing (WGR). Projects can be structured in many different ways. The easiest way to think about our workgroup referencing is that a referenced layer behaves exactly like a local layer. I'm not familiar with the problem you describe about WGR and texture mapping. Can you provide a simple example to me in the form of files? I will try and follow it up.

3. How does adding a saved view confuse the task manager? Do you see the name of the (personal) view in the task manager pull-down?

4. I see that you (B612 associates) are in Brussels. Are you using the US, Belgian, or French translation? Did you buy from NNA, from Design Express, or a third party?

[blimey]

Hi Robert ! Thank you for your reply.

We bought directly from you this june. Although we're located in Belgium, nor the belgian or even the french translation suited our needs for various reason. Most essential was that everybody is not french speaking (we've got french, dutch, german, chinese) all projects are not in Belgium and we want to be international. So english (as for many other things we do) is a good base.

Then I would be happy to customize it, essentially for classes names and layers name,Task manager use and WGR.

Re your 1.

What do you mean by auto-classing? I agree with the idea of simplicity. Yet it seems to me that right now, taking the soft as it is, it seems important (for us beginners at least) to be able not to make wrong settings while working : one needs to set the right layer, right classes, right organisation (active only/gray/show/snap for classes and for layers), right active/inactive setting for both classes and layers... That makes a hell a lot of combinations... and ii is difficult when the person is not used to the program. One always miss something.

This is why I agreed verymuch with the lesson in the first learning CD advising to use the Task Manager. And this is why I am so frustrated not to be able to make it work...

Actually, DO YOU or DO YOU NOT advise to use the task manager?

RE your 2.

- Say I have a file with 8 referenced layers from 8 different files. 1 file is for the site (DTM model), the 7 others for the floors.

- In all layers I create objects by using their class attribues.

- In my final file, I reference all the layers to obtain a 3D model. I create a model view in a local layer with all the layers linked.

- then I want to use RW in that final file to render my model. So I assign texture to each classes : DTM triangle class is assigned a grass texture with an jpg image. Walls classes are assign with a jpg image of bricks... and so on.

- Now the problem is that I cannot map the textures on e.g. the wall because my walls (that are on the referenced layers) are locked. So I cannot go in the Render tab and use the "mapping". Therefore the jpg never match the object and the rendering is very bad.

- The only way I've found to do is to assign the texture to the object in the original file. Then it appears correctly mapped in the client file. The problem is that if I have to do so : 1) it is a lot of work as I have to do it per objects in all the referenced files. 2) That ruins the whole concept of the class attribute by creation.

re your 3.

No I don't (see the name of the personal views). Well... Infact, it is more complex. I dont see it in the list till I edit the task manager. Then it appears in the list. At that point I can select it, but of course I cannot edit any tasks as there are none for that view. However I can click on "creates" but as soon as I do that, the view disappears. sometimes it crashes the program, sometimes it does nothing. But anyway, after that the TM is no longer usable (it crashes or do various bizare things).If I edit the .txt file I realise that it has written some data randomly apparently across different fields.

What is the problem?

do you think it is in relation with the bizar phenomenon (that I discribed in my point 3)of old presentation layers that appears after running "standard naming"? ? Or what would be the reason of that one?

I hope you can help me.

Waiting for your reply. Thank you.

Li Mei

[zackayak]

Robert,

I am another frustrated new user. I wish that in your tutorials you would not repeat how easy and intuitive your software is. I'm also curious if I should ignore the Task Manager.

arghhh,

Zack in Oakland

[Robert Anderson]

Li Mei, more questions. I've been discussing this issue with an engineer here and we're trying to sort out your concerns:

You said (regarding your problem with texture mapping and workgroup referencing):

quote:

---

The problem is that if I have to do so : 1) it is a lot of work as I have to do it per objects in all the referenced files. 2) That ruins the whole concept of the class attribute by creation.

---

Can you explain how (1) is a problem? Most all texture mapping is done "per object" so how does it matter if it's done in original vs. referenced files? and can you explain your objection (2)? How does the scenario undermine class attributes?

I've also done followup with the Task Manager engineer, and he believes that the TM works fine with viewports (I know this was not exactly your question.) Please describe your problem as precisely as you can in an email and send it to bugsubmit@nemetschek.net . Include file attachments (I would think that your Task manager datafile would be useful here.) It sounds like your Task manager editing bug definitely needs to be submitted..

[blimey]

Hi Robert,

I've been working day and night lately so didn't had time here...

To answer your questions :

1) No problem doing it per object in one file..., just did not feel like going through all the referenced file.(It is not only for mapping, but also setting classes... etc..) lot of time waisting... As for now I've decided to go Islandmon's way (I've posted the question in Renderwork few days ago): unreferencing the stuff while keeping them in the client file as a copy

2) Task Manager. I shall send the file. Huge. Do you have an ftp?

best.

Li Mei