How can I get ID to see sidelights

[Ramon PG]

KQ - "Michaelangelo and St. Peter's Dome? Sistine Chapel maybe :-)

"

It is true, and they are to be seen in Rome. I have seen photos. Remember they are scaled models... Not 1:1 as in CAD designing.

I agree with islandmon, I can understand that doing all in 3D might seem an overkill for many smaller projects, but greater control over what is being designed is to me the greatest incentive. And if in turn it helps avoiding loose ends that become embarassing change orders even better. But most of it is having max. control of your design intent and thus final output.

It used to be that contractors and owners were very understanding of the artist's desire to better the project during the construction phase, but now it is murder on the budget. It's a pity we have lost that, which I consider vital since it is impossible to anticipate all in the virtual world. At least 3D helps to compensate for that. Let's wait for holographic 3D.

[Ramon PG]

It would be nice to build something with a good builder. I mean, one that knows a bit about what a building code is, has some sensibility (and good taste) and helps you throughout the building process instead of building things wrong, supposedly as per CDs, and then stretching his hand with a change order quotation to "get it right".

99% of builders over here, and their crews are totally, absolutely unskilled. No such thing as "in good faith".

One of these days, mate, you'll come across a great project and you'll say to yourself "this is what building's about, I have to be a part of this, even if I can't make the boat and Ferrari payments this month" -

INMORTALITY !!! TRASCENDING THE AGES !!!

[Kevin]

All of this historical talk about St Peters is very nice and all, but the bottom line is that we are professionals, and this is a business.

As an architect, my job is to produce complete and detailed working drawings. Those drawings are my clients contract with the builder.

If the drawings are complete, then there should be no change orders. If the builder builds it wrong, then it is not built per the working drawings, (read contract), and he will need to correct the problem.

There is no way that a builder should be expected to build from a model alone. A model has no specifications and the construction trade revolves around specifications.

Ramon has very romantic ideas, but the bottom line is that this is a business.

[Ramon PG]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin:

1. There is no way that a builder should be expected to build from a model alone. A model has no specifications and the construction trade revolves around specifications.

2. Ramon has very romantic ideas, but the bottom line is that this is a business.

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1. We're talking future here. Virtual model that have all the specifications attached to it. The builder looks at it from any angle, zooms in, prints anything he needs when he needs it. It's already the way of doing bussines in the aerospace, automotive, and shipping industry. We are way behind. For hundreds (prob. thousands) of years it's been hand drawing and some clay, wood, paper models. And still is for most.

2. It's not just "romantic". I'm talking about making your work matter, whether it's the 911 site, a kid's park or a one room expansion to a house. It's about excellence, service, inspiration, making a mark. Don't you feel that when you see and experience buildings? (Some at least) There lies the difference between architecture, the team effort between owner, designer and builder and just erecting stuff. You must have felt that at some time, that you were part of something really trascendental, not just another job. Too bad most jobs are not that inspiring.

But, I am amazed to see buildings decades or centuries old still being used and their keepers faithfully maintaining the esscence of the original ideas intact for generations to admire. That's what I meant by inmortality, not necessarily having your name on a plaque, but I guess it didn't come out right.

Of course there's a lot of junk being built because of bad designs, bad owners and/or bad builders. But the rare exceptions make it worthwhile. That is what makes you get up in the morning, besides the car payments.

[Ramon PG]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Manus:

Hey Raymon

1. ... I see the majority of contracts moving to CostPlus.

2. You can either be part of the process or not. We are all in it together.

3. ...BTW, I dont have time for egos, fast cars and monuments....HTH

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1. That's interesting but takes one hell of a managing effort for an owner. Or do people still trust each other over there?

2. I feel builders, for the most part, want us out of the process. They feel they already know enough.

3. Yeah, right... ;-)

[Delmer]

I have had good dentists and bad dentists.

[Kevin]

I agree with Delmer. I think it is time for Ramon and Chris to move this "discussion" to a private message format. Hopefully they can hash out their issues.

[Ramon PG]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ramon P:

99% of builders over here, and their crews are totally, absolutely unskilled. No such thing as "in good faith".

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Chris,

I said "over here". You have no idea what it's like...

You're entitled to your opinion on architects, too.

[islandmon]

All successful projects require synergy between all the participants. A failure in any one area will lead to confusion and possible systemic conflicts. Constructions is a highly specific enterprise with absolute fixed costs and schedules. All members of the Design/Build Team must be treated with professional dignity and respect. Knowledge & Experience are 'priceless' commodities.