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Looking to Update VW and MAC OS


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We are currently running on Catalina 10.15.7 with VW 2020 SP5. It's been stable and great in all facets that we currently use it in being.....

-Camera Match extensively

-Terrain model and grading extensively. 

-Saved view 2d Drawings

-ocasionally smaller 3d models in conjunction with Camera Match.

 

With that being said Id love to get some feedback on others who have used 21 AND 22 and how they like one over the other in terms of these features and stability. Also in consideration how do these behave on the different OS for Mac. Is 2021 more stable on Catalina, Big Sur, or Monterey? Were leaning toward the latest version of 2021 to retain certain features that will not work in 2022.

 

Looking forward to some feedback.

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Using 2022 on Big Sur. It freezes on a graphics instruction (like pan), then crashes the entire OS. Its costing me a lot of time but at this juncture have no choice but to forge ahead. 2021 was stable on Big Sur. 2022 is M1 chip ready but appears to have backwards compatibility issues with Big Sur.  Word is it runs better on Monterey but that has its own set of issues.

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Im thinking 2021 SP5 on Catalina and then Big Sur. Stability is the primary concern. While maintaining function of the Terrain models and their various tools. I have more concern for that more so than CameraMatch for PhotoSim.

 

@Matt Panzerand VW knocked it out of the park with Camera Match. It has helped us win a lot of work. People are always impressed with our sims, so much so we have been getting more and more request annually. I really cant say enough good things about this feature!

For those of us still working in saved views(please state if you are!) I really wish we could find a way to batch covert to VPs tho.  Maybe we are the only firm still hanging onto ViewPack and working in Saved views? It's so vital to our workflow I hope that of the legacy tools that may sunset, that finding a way to do this for users is critical to VW's success. VW's used to pride itself on flexibility, and I would hate to see the Saved Views workflow sunset. 

 

When you have to convert 300 some sites a manual conversion is simply not viable.

 

Maybe if they knew more users used this we could find a better path forward? 

Edited by HEengineering
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3 hours ago, HEengineering said:

Im thinking 2021 SP5 on Catalina and then Big Sur. Stability is the primary concern. While maintaining function of the Terrain models and their various tools. I have more concern for that more so than CameraMatch for PhotoSim.

 

@Matt Panzerand VW knocked it out of the park with Camera Match. It has helped us win a lot of work. People are always impressed with our sims, so much so we have been getting more and more request annually. I really cant say enough good things about this feature!

For those of us still working in saved views(please state if you are!) I really wish we could find a way to batch covert to VPs tho.  Maybe we are the only firm still hanging onto ViewPack and working in Saved views? It's so vital to our workflow I hope that of the legacy tools that may sunset, that finding a way to do this for users is critical to VW's success. VW's used to pride itself on flexibility, and I would hate to see the Saved Views workflow sunset. 

 

When you have to convert 300 some sites a manual conversion is simply not viable.

 

Maybe if they new more users used this we could find a better path forward? 


hmm, I use saved views to walk clients thru a project, especial during the pandemic lockdowns and resulting Zoom meetings.  Are you saying this has been removed or reduced in functionality in 2022?

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No, Im not saying that. They still work very well! I hope they never become deemed a legacy workflow and get removed is all I'm saying.

 

We used a very nice plugin for years that unfortunately will no longer be supported in the newer version of VW. We were hoping Vectorworks would implement PanzerCad Viewport Plugin for our workflow in future versions, but it seems the plugin is on the shelf for now and no longer viable.

 

We just want a tool that can take a set of saved view CDs and run a script that converts them to useable DWG with viewports, which is what that plugin used to do. It's my understanding that only if you work in the VW workflow of Sheet Views' is a direct export dwg possible. Saved views workflow requires a preliminary step of running the script to create the viewports, and only then can you export as a dwg. 

 

We have had clients request we convert 300 sites to usable dwg files. When you have that many to convert the script is the only cost efficient way.

 

 

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3 hours ago, HEengineering said:

For those of us still working in saved views(please state if you are!) I really wish we could find a way to batch covert to VPs tho.  Maybe we are the only firm still hanging onto ViewPack and working in Saved views? It's so vital to our workflow I hope that of the legacy tools that may sunset, that finding a way to do this for users is critical to VW's success. VW's used to pride itself on flexibility, and I would hate to see the Saved Views workflow sunset. 

 

I still use saved views pretty extensively but mainly for changing class and layer visibility, only occasionally actually affecting the view.  I wrote a script a couple of weeks ago that automatically generates viewports from saved views, but only carries the class and layer visibilities over, all generated viewports have open crops.

I have been trying to find a way to poll the current view window boundary dimensions in a way that I can generate a crop object so that the script will automatically crop the viewports based on the view, but for the life of me I can't find a way of getting the necessary information to make it work.  Saved views have relatively few commands in Vectorscript, so it can be really hard to get specific information out of them.  I have kind of found a way which polls the whole screen size and uses the current view center, zoom, and scale to build a rectangle, but there's no way to check whether you are running Vectorworks in windowed mode or to compensate for any docked palettes on the sides of the screen, so it's not really a workable option.

 

In any case, my script is attached below.  Let me know if you have any questions.

Saved Views to Viewports.vsm

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23 minutes ago, Jesse Cogswell said:

I still use saved views pretty extensively but mainly for changing class and layer visibility,

 

 

Here too,

like just to switch from Modeling to IFC vs C4D/FBX/Datasmith Export.

Or a few saved views for building parts visibility settings.

 

It is a love and hate.

I like saved views because I can control all I need, but I do not like save views

as they are so quickly outdated  when working with the File and need constant

maintenance/updates for things like visibilities.

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It sounds like you both use it for modeling? When we compile drawings for our clients they are entirely 2D. We might draw a Civil plan on one layer scale and an enlarged detail on another layer scale but they are both active on the Saved View and that save view is what we publish or print. For example Our title sheet could be a saved view. Then our construction notes could be another saved view.

 

It's been suggested to us to try and work in Sheet views to avoid the need of Panzercad. While I can understand and see the flexibility in Sheet views when truly modeling say a house or building, we work in and industry where right now there is no value to us or the client to model the entire site. There are applications where we model specific fit ups, but our primary line of business is based on 2d still. It's not my preference. In fact quite the opposite. Im always looking for ways to improve our workflow. It's also has to be something that an entire team can get behind. 

Im kinda mixing 2 topics. The short of it is if we worked in Sheet views we wouldn't need Panzer cad as an intermediary step to convert a saved view package into sheet views. It's also my understanding that working in sheet views removes the need for PanzerCad conversion script.

I'm certain we could work in sheet views even drawing in 2D, but the internal argument is why create the extra work? Why deal with viewports if you don't have to or annotation layers and the oddities that happen when scaling line styles. With a model you can change the views, details, and update. Is that still worth something even when drawing in 2d? Many of our details come from cut sheets and we draw them site specific. Others are standard details we have had for years. We work primarily in the Utilities industry, not Architectural, or residential homes, or theatre. However; the firm started with VW and has remained with it for over 15 years. The easy onboarding was a huge selling point. But not having an dwg export option for a saved views workflow is concerning. So I find myself constantly revisiting this topic to see how we can solve the issue. Working in Sheet views doesnt appear to be the answer, but I could be missing something. VW is a vast and large program. After 15 years I still don't use all of its power, but probably the most advanced user we have.

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12 hours ago, HEengineering said:

It sounds like you both use it for modeling? When we compile drawings for our clients they are entirely 2D. We might draw a Civil plan on one layer scale and an enlarged detail on another layer scale but they are both active on the Saved View and that save view is what we publish or print. For example Our title sheet could be a saved view. Then our construction notes could be another saved view.

 

It's been suggested to us to try and work in Sheet views to avoid the need of Panzercad. While I can understand and see the flexibility in Sheet views when truly modeling say a house or building, we work in and industry where right now there is no value to us or the client to model the entire site. There are applications where we model specific fit ups, but our primary line of business is based on 2d still. It's not my preference. In fact quite the opposite. Im always looking for ways to improve our workflow. It's also has to be something that an entire team can get behind. 

Im kinda mixing 2 topics. The short of it is if we worked in Sheet views we wouldn't need Panzer cad as an intermediary step to convert a saved view package into sheet views. It's also my understanding that working in sheet views removes the need for PanzerCad conversion script.

I'm certain we could work in sheet views even drawing in 2D, but the internal argument is why create the extra work? Why deal with viewports if you don't have to or annotation layers and the oddities that happen when scaling line styles. With a model you can change the views, details, and update. Is that still worth something even when drawing in 2d? Many of our details come from cut sheets and we draw them site specific. Others are standard details we have had for years. We work primarily in the Utilities industry, not Architectural, or residential homes, or theatre. However; the firm started with VW and has remained with it for over 15 years. The easy onboarding was a huge selling point. But not having an dwg export option for a saved views workflow is concerning. So I find myself constantly revisiting this topic to see how we can solve the issue. Working in Sheet views doesnt appear to be the answer, but I could be missing something. VW is a vast and large program. After 15 years I still don't use all of its power, but probably the most advanced user we have.


As an (AutoCAD)refugee, sheet layers (paper space)and design layers (model space) make perfect sense to me.  I used that workflow in 2D AutoCAD for 20 years.  I don’t know anything about Panzercad workflow that you refer to, but sheet layers are perfectly good for both 2D and 3D workflows for me.  I like using the annotation space of viewports and keeping my design layers relatively free of text.

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We basically do all our 2d Construction documents in saved views/ top plan on screen plane. I only use layer plane when I plan to model maybe a specific item. While our industry rarely utilizes 3d Models, we are known for providing some of the better ones. I could share a dummy file to give you a better feel for he workflow we have with 2d construction documents. In fact I'd love to engage in some dialogue to have a clear understanding on others methods or feedback on ours.  As with any industry much is proprietary so I would have to actually make a dummy file, but that's easy.

Drawing a site plan on a design layer allows us to annotate with out jumping in and out of VPs and line weights appear as expected all in the same place. Saved views has simply worked for over a decade and still continues to. I need to find value in drawing a 2D site plan in Sheet views. If I could I suspect these items would have to happen internally on our end...

 

1. Better classing so that the viewports can be more specifically adjusted for classes. More classes equals more flexibility, but also bloats up the class list.

 

2. Convincing a team to learn an entirely new approach and understanding viewports, and the aspects of annotation layers vs design layers. Abandon the very small class list we use as a starting pt for every job for a larger list.

 

3. Coming to a better understanding as to why so often a SLVP looks so different from how it looks on the initial design layer? It feels like this workflow wants to be drawn 1:1 on a DL and then maybe you get predictable line appearance and scale on the VP side? Hatches come to mind here too. Look good in DL space and then in the viewport often scale looks different.

 

These are the most obvious struggles we find. 

 

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