Spaces and Space Labels

[EmilyArch]

Hello!

 

I am beginning to use Spaces and Space Labels so that our firm can enjoy more BIM capabilities than we've enjoyed in the past with simple Room Tags. I'm having two small issues that I think and hope have simple answers.

 

1. I've designated a Space Style that applies to our Spaces, which includes designation of the Space and the Space Tag to specified classes with graphic properties set up. The fill in the Class and the Pen Style are set to "None" and "Use on Creation" is checked. When I place spaces, though, they come in with a solid fill and solid outline. I can change them manually in the Attributes Palette to use the Class Attributes and they look correct. However, as soon as I change saved views, all the spaces revert to a solid fill. I tried closing and reopening the file, which worked until I published.

 

2. The Space Tags display and print blue. I'm certain this is a feature, not a bug, as the blue seems to indicate something (perhaps connected to the Space being a PIO?). Our firm can decide we're okay with blue Space Labels, we can print in BW to get around the blue text, but if there is a setting that will allow us to change it to black and maintain our ability to use other colors on the document (ie not print in BW), we'd love to know how to do so.

 

I'd appreciate any guidance the forum can provide.

 

Best,

 

Emily

[Jeff Prince]

It’s generally preferred to use Data Tags than a space object’s builtin room tags.

[EmilyArch]

@jeff prince

 

Thank you! That's good to know. Are issues like mine the reason that Data Tags are best practice? I'd like to be able to pull dimensions, area, finishes, and other information from the space. I'll start looking in to how to do so with Data Tags, and would appreciate any additional information you might provide on that work flow.

 

Best,

 

Emily

[Tom W.]

2 hours ago, EmilyArch said:

1. I've designated a Space Style that applies to our Spaces, which includes designation of the Space and the Space Tag to specified classes with graphic properties set up. The fill in the Class and the Pen Style are set to "None" and "Use on Creation" is checked. When I place spaces, though, they come in with a solid fill and solid outline. I can change them manually in the Attributes Palette to use the Class Attributes and they look correct. However, as soon as I change saved views, all the spaces revert to a solid fill. I tried closing and reopening the file, which worked until I published.

 

The 2D appearance of the Space object is controlled by the '2D Boundary' class ('Graphic Attributes' pane). So if this is set to the None class the Space will display with the None class attributes. Set up your own class with the attributes you want (or multiple classes if you want different types of spaces to appear with different attributes). Or simply turn off the 2D boundary in the OIP by disabling 'Show 2D Boundary'.

 

2 hours ago, EmilyArch said:

2. The Space Tags display and print blue. I'm certain this is a feature, not a bug, as the blue seems to indicate something (perhaps connected to the Space being a PIO?). Our firm can decide we're okay with blue Space Labels, we can print in BW to get around the blue text, but if there is a setting that will allow us to change it to black and maintain our ability to use other colors on the document (ie not print in BW), we'd love to know how to do so.

 

This is not a feature: the text can be whatever colour you want, controlled either by object or by class. Space Labels are symbols so you need to edit the symbol to see why it's displaying with blue text: either find it in the Resource Manager or click on 'Edit Layout...' in the Space Settings. Select the text object + check the settings in the Attributes Palette + check what class it's assigned to in the OIP.

 

As for Data Tags, have a look at the readymade ones in the VW Libraries. Maybe start off with one that's close to what you want + duplicate it + add the additional fields you want to include. Any of the data attached to a Space object can be picked up in a Data Tag:

 

 

[EmilyArch]

@Tom W. Thank you for your response!

 

A little clarification:

 

1. Yes, I've set the Class in the Space Style. The Spaces are being assigned to the appropriate class, not the None class. The class has the appropriate graphic settings. The issue is that the attributes are not being assigned to the class attributes, but instead to the default solid white fill and solid black line. When I change them to be "By Class" in the Object Attributes, they take on the desired properties, but the change does not stick. It keeps reverting back.

 

2. The text is black in the Space Label Layout. The Class Attributes are black. I did, indeed, begin the process by duplicating and editing an existing label, changing only the font style. Following your feedback, though, I edited an OTB Space Label without duplicating it, then renamed the label. Not blue! The only difference I can tell in my process is whether I duplicated the existing Space Label before editing, though I'm sure some setting is different.

 

Best,

 

Emily

[EmilyArch]

Update: If I duplicate the Class that the Space Labels are on, they show up in black. Woo! However, I deleted the original Class (named "Rooms - Tags" and renamed the new one from "Rooms - Tags - 2" to "Rooms - Tags". The Space Labels reverted to blue. Curiouser and curiouser.

 

Added wrinkle, if I duplicate the Area Class ("Rooms - Areas"), the Spaces do not take on the appropriate color fill.

 

I'm inclined to think it's a glitch at this point, but I'd appreciate if anyone has a deeper understanding.

 

Also, I'd love more input on @jeff prince's suggestion to use Data Tags. Why are Data Tags preferable? Can I still get BIM capabilities for scheduling?

 

Best,

 

Emily

[Jeff Prince]

3 hours ago, EmilyArch said:

Update: If I duplicate the Class that the Space Labels are on, they show up in black. Woo! However, I deleted the original Class (named "Rooms - Tags" and renamed the new one from "Rooms - Tags - 2" to "Rooms - Tags". The Space Labels reverted to blue. Curiouser and curiouser.

 

Added wrinkle, if I duplicate the Area Class ("Rooms - Areas"), the Spaces do not take on the appropriate color fill.

 

I'm inclined to think it's a glitch at this point, but I'd appreciate if anyone has a deeper understanding.

 

Also, I'd love more input on @jeff prince's suggestion to use Data Tags. Why are Data Tags preferable? Can I still get BIM capabilities for scheduling?

 

Best,

 

Emily

 Ancient workflow = objects had no data and draftsperson manually populated a drawing’s notation with text, multiple occurrences of the same text across multiple sheets led to errors.

Old workflow = plug in objects like Spaces, Plants, Doors, etc use built in tagging to describe aspects of the data contained or derived from a plug in object.  A little finicky to control, posing challenges to positioning and appearance across different sheets within your document.  Less prone to error as data exists in one place, the object, and is reported to many places (tags, schedules, reports).

 

New workflow = turn off a plug in object’s built in tagging and use data tags to report the data contained within the object. All of the advantages to a data based workflow without the graphic and reporting limitations of built in tagging. Neither old or new method impacts BIM or scheduling, they are both valid workflows.  Ancient workflow, that should be left to the archeologists.

 

Why are data tags better?

It appears as if Vectorworks is on a path to depreciate plug-in objects built in tagging.

Proof?

See any thread here where a Vectorworks employee suggests the use of data tags over built object tags.

For those of us who have developed workflows upon the first shiny object the programmers gifted us, reworks of processes are necessary to switch to the new methods.  Best to adopt new processes I suspect, cry once.

 

How is the workflow better, regardless to potential future depreciation of built in tagging?

Create a set of building plans where you need the room tags to report different data on different sheets and have adjusted positioning…. Say a floor plan vs RCP vs furnishing plan vs emergency egress plan… the advantages of data tags with redesigned styles to suit each of these scenarios quickly reveals itself.  Data edited in object, tags across multiple sheets and style report new data.

 

Need to change the graphic appearance of a project’s tagging in it’s entirety?

Editing the styles associated with the data tags cascades thru the entire document.  Compare the hunt and peck typist on a typewriter to a person using a word processor using Styles, webpages typed html vs using CSS, or graphic designers using Styles in vector art programs.  Or the worst offender of all, the Vectorworks person changes an object’s attributes instead of controlling them with by class behaviors 🙂  There is a logical reason for Vectorworks to move in this direction based on trends in how people interact with computers, design, and data.  There isn’t a ‘wrong’ way of doing things, but there are inefficient ones.