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Question about georeferencing


Ride

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I'm looking to plant a tree in my backyard to offer some shade during the summer months. What I would like to do is model the shape of my house, and garage, and locate that using georeferencing to model the shade on the house throughout the day. I want to make sure I locate the tree to give me the maximum shade, where and when we need it most.

 

Is this something that can be done relatively quickly/easily in Vectorworks? I'm using 2021, but also have 2022 that I'm not using yet (pending the release of InteriorCAD). 

 

I've never done any georeferencing so I'd like to know if I'm wasting my time trying.

 

Thanks for any insight, tips or tricks.

 

 

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Georeferencing is great + I use it all the time, mainly so that imported survey data comes into the file at the correct location + subsequent imported data/geometry aligns correctly. It is really a way of establishing a common datum between yourself + different surveyors - plus other mapping data or satellite imagery - so that everything aligns correctly automatically.

 

So if you have survey of your house/site you could import that survey into a Georeferenced file + it would arrive at the correct geographical location, elevation + orientation. You would use the topo data to create a site model + the building elevations to model the buildings (or if the buildings have been laser scanned you'd import point cloud files + model the buildings from these). If you create the site model in one file + the building models in a series of other file, because all the files are georeferenced when you bring the building models into the site model file as referenced DLVPs they will automatically come in at the correct location + orientation.

 

But if you are just modelling the house/site using your own measurements I think all you need to do is model it then rotate it so that it's oriented correctly in relation to north then insert a Heliodon to assess the impact of the tree at different locations/times of day/year. I don't think Georeferencing has any bearing on Heliodons as such, apart from there's an option to derive the Heliodon's location from the Georeferencing coordinate system, but I would say you're better inputting the specific coordinates for your location yourself rather than matching it to the georeferencing as you'll get more precise results this way.

 

If you are having your house/site properly surveyed + will be making a site model from the topo data, you still don't necessarily need to use a Georeferenced file. The advantage of Georeferencing as I say is that it will ensure that multiple surveys, etc will align correctly with each other plus it will enable you to derive the geographical coordinates for your tree for when you plant it so if your yard is enormous + you'll be using GPS to find where the tree needs to be planted on the ground this might be useful. Otherwise you'd probably just measure back from known features like fences, buildings, other trees, etc. in which case you can just model everything at 0,0 rather than coordinates relative to your geographical coordinate system.

 

Hope that all makes sense. Happy to post instructions for setting up a Georeferenced file if you want it. Others more knowledgeable/experienced than me may correct me on the above but this is my take on it all! Be glad to know if I've misunderstood anything.

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Thanks @Tom W.for that thorough reply. Very helpful. My yard is small and I just want to model the house and tree, nothing else around it, so it makes sense to just use the heliodon. I guess I just need to figure out the arc or path the heliodon should track to mimic the sun. I could put 8 or 10 lights along that path and turn them on individually to see the resulting shadows.

 

Anyway, this gives me a path forward. Thanks.

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7 minutes ago, Ride said:

I guess I just need to figure out the arc or path the heliodon should track to mimic the sun. I could put 8 or 10 lights along that path and turn them on individually to see the resulting shadows.

The heliodon does all this for you. You just need to specify your location from the list or enter the coordinates if you're not on there, then the sun will be at the correct position. You can then specify the time of day + time of year + the sun will adjust position accordingly. And you can do solar animations + other things...

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3 hours ago, Tom W. said:

Georeferencing is great + I use it all the time, mainly so that imported survey data comes into the file at the correct location + subsequent imported data/geometry aligns correctly.

 

If I got you right,

 

you are basically just Geolocating a "DTM-in-the-middle-File" for Exchange ?

Your building drawing is just VW origin centered and will only be geolocated

through referencing into the DTM File.

And on the other side you can access Underlays and other imported data,
in correct orientation, from the DTM file by DLVPs

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2 hours ago, zoomer said:

Your building drawing is just VW origin centered and will only be geolocated

through referencing into the DTM File.

 

No. All the files are Georeferenced by default. I have a Georeferenced template file + will import all the surveys/point clouds into this file initially then use this as the basis for all subsequent files for the site model + buildings. If only the site model file is Georeferenced + then the building files have their Internal Origin at 0,0, when you import the building into the site model file (as a referenced DLVP) it will come into the file at 0,0 i.e. miles away from the Internal Origin, requiring you to manually move it to where the site model is. Doing this will result in performance/graphic issues because VW considers the DLVP's location from the Internal Origin in the source file not the target file.

 

If I draw the building at its true geographical location + orientation in the source file then when I import it into the site model file it will be perfectly located + all I need to do is raise it to the correct elevation relative to the terrain (because I will draw it in the source file with the ground floor level set to Z=0).

 

Alternatively, I might decide instead to draw the building aligned with the x/y axis for ease of modelling + if I do this I just position it in the general vicinity of the Internal Origin, then on import into the site model file move it a few metres to the correct location + rotate it so it has the correct orientation + as before elevate it to the correct Z height.

 

I should say that these are projects where I'm modelling several existing buildings which are spread out over the same site, then modelling proposed new buildings in amongst them.

 

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Thanks Tom,

 

but I am not sure if I understand everything.

 

My intention is to always model inside a coordinate system that has its

origin at the first of my Building Axe's crossing.

(To be able to always control my drawing precision when looking at OIPs coordinates)

 

Also I need my Model around origin for Visualization Exports C4D/Datasmith/FBX/....

to avoid precision issues.

 

Therefore I would, like in the past, set my User Origin to the negative position of the

real world Origin of the geolocated source data.

(AFAIR I would do the same for my DTM if I need to modify it)

 

This way there is no way to re-export to geolocation again though.

(And most times not needed)

But I thought, the way I understood your workflow at first, it would be possible

to to both, work at a local Origin while keeping the option to export georeferenced

if needed and even keep an aberration from true north angle.

(Now Z option still though ?)

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4 hours ago, Tom W. said:

The heliodon does all this for you. You just need to specify your location from the list or enter the coordinates if you're not on there, then the sun will be at the correct position. You can then specify the time of day + time of year + the sun will adjust position accordingly. And you can do solar animations + other things...

I agree with @Tom W..  For the original question, you can ignore georeferencing and set your location's coordinates in the heliodon.

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Ok, this worked perfectly! I made an animation with and without the tree, and the tree in different locations. I attached one of my videos. The only thing right now is that I don't have a good tree object to work with. Is anyone able to provide one? I also have service select so I'm going to go through the extra libraries to see if I can find anything. The tree we're considering is a Pacific Sunset Maple, with a max height of 30' and a canopy 25' wide.

 

Thank you @Tom W.. This was way easier than I expected it to be! 

 

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I found a tree. I will post an updated video soon.

 

EDIT: Here's the updated video. This was super helpful, it changed the location of where I thought the tree should go. Not by a lot, but moving the tree 5-6' to from where I was planning it to go definitely changes the shadow profile against the house. This assumes of course that I've located the house correctly, but I was pretty careful to get the orientation correct. Either way, It was a good exercise. 

 

 

Edited by Ride
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