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Can I "unlink" a Section-Elevation line?


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There are multiple previous threads with similar-ish questions but they seem to apply to previous versions of what is now called the "Section-Elevation Line". This question is to do with the Section-Elevation Line as it behaves in VW2021 (and presumably also VW2022?).

 

Actually I have two related questions.

 

Question 1:  Once I have created an instance of a Section-Elevation Line, in the annotations space of a viewport, can I "unlink" it from the viewport it refers back to, so that it is still a Section-Elevation line but can be moved around without affecting the cut plane of that viewport, and without affecting other instances in other viewports?

It looks like I can ungroup it, in which case it becomes a bunch of "dumb" objects which I have to regroup together if I want to move them as one. Is this basically what I have to do, or is there some other way of unlinking it?

At first I thought unticking "auto-coordinate" would do this, but it doesn't.

 

 

Question 2: Often I will have a section line that I want to appear on more than one viewport, and I want it to define the same cut plane in each case and link back to the same section viewport, but for reasons of laying out drawing sheets I want to tweak the position of the end markers. This usually occurs when it shows on several floorplans. The screenshot below shows the kind of thing I want to achieve.

Is there any way of doing this without "unlinking" one or more of the instances?

 

116332593_Screenshot2021-12-02at12_52_47.thumb.jpg.cc6743d612713d2f004d5cdb70efed79.jpg

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Ok. Another problem. If I adjust the section-elevation line on a viewport, it turns out that this then shifts the model within the section viewport that it is linked to. This is even if I have the section viewport set up as "length range" = "infinite" rather than limited by section line length.

It looks like I can move one end of it without issue, but if I move the other end, or move the object as a whole, then this is the result. Is this what is supposed to happen, or am I doing something wrong?

If this is the behaviour, then it seems these linked section lines are hardly usable for me, because I almost always want to be able to adjust where the markers sit, on the various viewports they are in the annotations of.

And if they can't be unlinked as such, then it looks like my workflow has to be:

- create section

- tell VW which viewports I'd like an instance of its section-elevation line to appear on

- VW places the instance with end markers wherever it feels like

- go round each of those viewports, into the annotations, ungroup and regroup the section-elevation lines

- adjust the resulting objects manually to get the marker positions I want.

 

If that's how I now have to work, then this is a backwards step from the previous system.

Edited by line-weight
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When you say “link” I think you are talking about section elevation lines which “define” section vps. Ie the line length and location defines where the section cut is made. 
 

VW uses the term “link” where a section line is simply linked to the section vps sheet and drawing numbers. Ie moving the section line has no impact on the section vp.

 

If you draw a section line and instead of creating a vp from it, where the section line will then “define the vp”, you can instead just link it to an existing vp.

 

So for question 1 I don’t think you can “undefine” a section line from a vp but instead of ungrouping it you can trace another section line over it an in the oip and just “link” it to the section vp. Then delete the original section line. The linked line and markers can be moved around without changing the vp.

 

For question 2. Yes the section line markers will all be in the same place for section lines which “define” a section vp. If you want section markers in different spots you could do what I suggested for question 1.

 

Another option which I have used, and which might answer your follow up issue is to use a section elevation line style that has no markers, then use data tags as markers. Then only the section line itself will define the vp but the marker tags can be anywhere you want.

Edited by Boh
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
6 hours ago, line-weight said:

Question 1:  Once I have created an instance of a Section-Elevation Line, in the annotations space of a viewport, can I "unlink" it from the viewport it refers back to, so that it is still a Section-Elevation line but can be moved around without affecting the cut plane of that viewport, and without affecting other instances in other viewports?

It looks like I can ungroup it, in which case it becomes a bunch of "dumb" objects which I have to regroup together if I want to move them as one. Is this basically what I have to do, or is there some other way of unlinking it?

At first I thought unticking "auto-coordinate" would do this, but it doesn't.

 

Select the Section-Elevation Line, Cut, then Paste In-place.  After that, you see the "Linked Viewport" popup in the Object Info palette enables meaning it's no longer defining the viewport.

 

6 hours ago, line-weight said:

Question 2: Often I will have a section line that I want to appear on more than one viewport, and I want it to define the same cut plane in each case and link back to the same section viewport, but for reasons of laying out drawing sheets I want to tweak the position of the end markers. This usually occurs when it shows on several floorplans. The screenshot below shows the kind of thing I want to achieve.

Is there any way of doing this without "unlinking" one or more of the instances?

 

Unfortunately, you cannot.  We would like to improve these objects so that they allow more independent control over each instance without changing the defined viewport.

 

5 hours ago, line-weight said:

Ok. Another problem. If I adjust the section-elevation line on a viewport, it turns out that this then shifts the model within the section viewport that it is linked to. This is even if I have the section viewport set up as "length range" = "infinite" rather than limited by section line length.

It looks like I can move one end of it without issue, but if I move the other end, or move the object as a whole, then this is the result. Is this what is supposed to happen, or am I doing something wrong?

If this is the behaviour, then it seems these linked section lines are hardly usable for me, because I almost always want to be able to adjust where the markers sit, on the various viewports they are in the annotations of.

And if they can't be unlinked as such, then it looks like my workflow has to be:

- create section

- tell VW which viewports I'd like an instance of its section-elevation line to appear on

- VW places the instance with end markers wherever it feels like

- go round each of those viewports, into the annotations, ungroup and regroup the section-elevation lines

- adjust the resulting objects manually to get the marker positions I want.

 

If that's how I now have to work, then this is a backwards step from the previous system.

 

I believe these same issues existed in the previous system.  That's not to say that is okay - it is not.  If you're seeing different (worse) behavior than in previous versions, please submit a bug stating it as a regression.

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14 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

Select the Section-Elevation Line, Cut, then Paste In-place.  After that, you see the "Linked Viewport" popup in the Object Info palette enables meaning it's no longer defining the viewport.

 

 

Ah, OK, this works and gives me what I want! Thank you.

 

But as far as I can see, this rather crucial knowledge is not documented anywhere in VW help -

 

 https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2021/eng/VW2021_Guide/Annotation/Creating_section-elevation_lines.htm

 

Unless I am missing something? I think the distinction between a "defined" and "linked" viewport also needs to be made explicit, and very clear. As far as I can see this is not the case at present.

 

I'd suggest it should be something you can control in the OIP as well (ie switch a section-elevation line between "linked" and "defining") so that it's clear that these objects can behave in these two modes.

 

 

14 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

Unfortunately, you cannot.  We would like to improve these objects so that they allow more independent control over each instance without changing the defined viewport.

 

Ok. But setting them as "linked" rather than "defining" near enough gives me what I want for now. It lets me co-ordinate drawing numbers automaically. For the future yes it would also be nice to have them automatically sit on the cut plane line and update with it if it is changed ... while allowing the end markers to be moved.

 

14 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

I believe these same issues existed in the previous system.  That's not to say that is okay - it is not.  If you're seeing different (worse) behavior than in previous versions, please submit a bug stating it as a regression.

 

Do you mean, it's a bug if this happens with "defining" section-elevation lines, or it's only a bug if it happens with "linked" ones?

 

 

 

 

Edited by line-weight
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16 hours ago, Boh said:

 

Another option which I have used, and which might answer your follow up issue is to use a section elevation line style that has no markers, then use data tags as markers. Then only the section line itself will define the vp but the marker tags can be anywhere you want.

 

Presumably the section line itself still has to have certain end points though? Or do you set it as a kind of invisible line that you can snap to?

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By the way a suggestion. These are the dialogue boxes I get when I want to set a section line instance, or choose a viewport to link to.

 

They give priority to the "viewport name" rather than "drawing title" associated with that viewport. One of these dropdowns gives viewport name only, and the other one gives the drawing title but in a way that it's not clearly visible, at least with my palette setup.

 

I'm guessing it's not just me who doesn't usually bother naming viewports, and hence end up with a load of meaningless names like "3/SECTIONS-33". If I'm searching for a particular viewport, the drawing title is likely to be much more useful for identifying the one I want (while I recognise it won't necessarily be unique).

 

I'd like a dialogue that gave me columns from left to right: Sheet Title / Drawing Title / Viewport name. So I am looking at eg. "Floor plans / 2nd floor existing / 3/SECTIONS-33"

 

 

 

 

533017375_Screenshot2021-12-03at10_05_56.jpg.a089cd07caec2dd6d3bb511f6029700e.jpg199216221_Screenshot2021-12-03at10_09_21.jpg.690506ab521ff29efa52dca25ceb2308.jpg

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6 hours ago, line-weight said:

Presumably the section line itself still has to have certain end points though? Or do you set it as a kind of invisible line that you can snap to?

Yes the section line itself has to be the same for every defining section line. Ive used the data tag technique where I wanted to have the marker off the line due to crowded annotations so haven’t had to fiddle either the line

 

I agree with you re viewport naming. Vw should have a better way of naming vps that use the sheet no, drawing number and drawing title. I rely heavily on a script to rename vps for the very reasons you outlined in you post above..

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
On 12/3/2021 at 4:54 AM, line-weight said:

 

Ah, OK, this works and gives me what I want! Thank you.

 

But as far as I can see, this rather crucial knowledge is not documented anywhere in VW help -

 

 https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2021/eng/VW2021_Guide/Annotation/Creating_section-elevation_lines.htm

 

I just requested to include something on this in our help.  thank you for mentioning this!

 

On 12/3/2021 at 4:54 AM, line-weight said:

Unless I am missing something? I think the distinction between a "defined" and "linked" viewport also needs to be made explicit, and very clear. As far as I can see this is not the case at present.

 

I'd suggest it should be something you can control in the OIP as well (ie switch a section-elevation line between "linked" and "defining") so that it's clear that these objects can behave in these two modes.

 

I entered an Enhancement Request for this (VE-102564).

 

On 12/3/2021 at 4:54 AM, line-weight said:

Ok. But setting them as "linked" rather than "defining" near enough gives me what I want for now. It lets me co-ordinate drawing numbers automaically. For the future yes it would also be nice to have them automatically sit on the cut plane line and update with it if it is changed ... while allowing the end markers to be moved.

 

This is on my list of future improvements.  The behavior could be somewhat similar to how Grid Line objects behave.

Enhancement Request (VE-102565) entered.

 

On 12/3/2021 at 4:54 AM, line-weight said:

Do you mean, it's a bug if this happens with "defining" section-elevation lines, or it's only a bug if it happens with "linked" ones?

 

Well, I believe the shifting with defining Section Lines is due to how the feature was designed.  So it may be considered (technically) as working as designed.  However, we know it's a problem and want to address it.  However, if a linked section line causes them to shift, that would definitely be a bug.  But I don't believe that happens.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
On 12/3/2021 at 5:15 AM, line-weight said:

By the way a suggestion. These are the dialogue boxes I get when I want to set a section line instance, or choose a viewport to link to.

 

They give priority to the "viewport name" rather than "drawing title" associated with that viewport. One of these dropdowns gives viewport name only, and the other one gives the drawing title but in a way that it's not clearly visible, at least with my palette setup.

 

I'm guessing it's not just me who doesn't usually bother naming viewports, and hence end up with a load of meaningless names like "3/SECTIONS-33". If I'm searching for a particular viewport, the drawing title is likely to be much more useful for identifying the one I want (while I recognise it won't necessarily be unique).

 

I'd like a dialogue that gave me columns from left to right: Sheet Title / Drawing Title / Viewport name. So I am looking at eg. "Floor plans / 2nd floor existing / 3/SECTIONS-33"

 

 

 

 

533017375_Screenshot2021-12-03at10_05_56.jpg.a089cd07caec2dd6d3bb511f6029700e.jpg199216221_Screenshot2021-12-03at10_09_21.jpg.690506ab521ff29efa52dca25ceb2308.jpg

 

I completely agree that these should be improved and consistent.

Can you please put this in the Wishlist forum?

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@line-weight as usual, these are all really good points/problems/request.

It does seem that the help section could use some help...

 

 

On 12/2/2021 at 9:33 AM, Boh said:

...you can trace another section line over it an in the oip and just “link” it to the section vp. Then delete the original section line. The linked line and markers can be moved around without changing the vp...

wow... but thank you.

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