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VW 2022 SP2 - IFC Export Issues !?


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Am I the only one that sees issues with IFC Exports ?

 

- Many Geometries a bit dislocated or offset !

(scaled Symbols)

- Many Geometries a even rotated !

(Symbol instances in a Group)

- VW Window's (not Door's) Jambs and/or Sashes rotated by 90° (from vertical to "Layer Plane ?)

   while Glass Panes appear as expected.

- Strange 2D (axes) geometry from Walls at "Wall Layer Height", for Walls that use smaller manual heights.

 

Not File related,

beside that all my Files may have migration background from previous VW Versions.

Maybe Window issues a little bit Window Type related, like Simple Sash Window vs Sliding Window.

Problematic Walls appear all in a File without Story Settings, Layer Heights and Layer Wall Heights only.

Here, IFC 2x3 tested only.

 

 

At first I thought about a IFC translation error between VW and Bricscad.

But it appears also in Open IFC Viewer or even when re-imported into VW.

 

So if anyone is motivated to IFC Export his project and bring it back in by IFC Import

and can take a look if it looks reasonable, very welcome.

 

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Difficult, I can't remember ....

a) when my previous IFC exports exactly happened, Sp0/1 or only SP2,

as I have overwritten the same IFC export file and CAD imports each time.

b) If I would have really recogniced any of these issues.

 

I started looking first at geometry issues after a round Wall suddenly flipped

in Twinmotion Datasmith Export, when I tried to switch UV Texture coordinates

from TM menu. The Wall jumped from Layer Plane 90° to a Front Elevation Plane.

 

I will try to extract all strange elements of all random files I tried so far later into

a new file and send it to R&D if it still happens.

 

My IFC Exports look so unusable or untrusty, if it is not just for me, other users

should have noticed this too already  ....

Edited by zoomer
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Strange,

I just try to import Layers of effected File's Objects into a blank file.

But I have Problems to do so ...

The Windows (still "in Walls") do no more cut holes in their Walls .....

And RW Textures are mixed up too.

 

 

EDIT :

Sorry, it isn't that easy to import Layers ....

As the Story/Level Settings will not follow and the Roof Layer's Geometry

will occlude my entrance Story's Geometry .....

 

And I decided to import Layers just only to avoid any Story or Layer Wall Height issues ....

Edited by zoomer
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On 12/1/2021 at 10:17 PM, JuanP said:

@zoomer reporting your issue to R&D - Just to make make sure, were you having any of these issues in SP1?

 

I made a ZIP File with

1. VWX Test File

2. its IFC Export and

3. its IFC Re-Import into VWX.

 

imported some Layers from 3 different Files and their effected Objects.

If you compare these demos (by referencing !?), you should be able to

see the

- Window Problems with rotated Jambs (or/and Sashes)

- Dislocations of certain Facade Elements in Z

- Rotation of my Tree Symbols Groups

 

 

 

BTW

Now that Unified View is always ON and Screen Plane Alignment gone ....

I see that .... I don't see Layers with different Scale anymore !?

(I always deactivated "ignore Layers with different Scales" in old school Unified View

to avoid such surprises)

 

I think it does not make sense to hide other scaled Layers by default !

(If technically difficult, use the Scale of the active Layer for view pane scale and show all Layer Scales)

 

((Or get somehow rid of Layer Scales at all and just let choose a "temporary" View Pane Scale ?))

I am aware of it not being that easy but something doe not fit here.

 

TEST_IFC_EXPORT.zip

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2 hours ago, Mihail Rizov said:

Hi @zoomer,

 

We are aware of that issue and we're working on it.

Could you tell us did you draw all your objects in 2022 or the model was translated from 2021 or an earlier version?

 

Thanks and Regards,

Mihail Rizov

 

 

Thanks for chiming in Mihail,

 

I am pretty sure that the Windows were already done in VW 2021.

Not sure about the Facade Symbols Z shift, more likely created in VW 2022.

 

Not 100% sure about the Tree Dummy Symbols, (Group rotated).

They should exist from the VW 2021 beginning by importing DWG (or VWX ?)

2D Symbols,

Which at any point I edited and added VBVisuals 3D Trees - which I later replaced

by VW Spheres (*)  because of lagging 3D View.

(* Which unfortunately come in faceted in DWG as well as IFC)

Edited by zoomer
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Hi @zoomer,
Thank you for your information. I'm attaching the IFC-exported file from our latest changes.

 

A few things to note:

- Please, do not attach IfcSite to whatever - an IFC file should have no more that 1 (one) IfcSite, it is added automatically (even if not present in the model) or it is the first DTM object in the layers assigned to Site in Layer Mapping/IFC Export dialog;

 

- If you are not sure about IFC designation of an object - please, use IfcBuildingElementProxy. Another option is to choose Extended Vectorworks Model View (Export IFC Project -> Data tab -> Model View) - this will export any object that has 3D geometry as IfcBuildingElementProxy, so you don't need to bother with attaching IFC data;

 

- When you attach IFC Data to a group - this means you want to create an aggregate IFC Entity - e.g. complex roofs/stairs/ramps can be created and exported to IFC in this way. In your file, there are multiple groups with IfcSite and many symbols with IfcSite inside - sorry, this does not make sense, so I detached IFC Data from your groups before the export.

 

Regards,
Mihail Rizov

TEST_IFC_EXPORT.zip

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I learned something ....

 

1.

 

4 hours ago, Mihail Rizov said:

- Please, do not attach IfcSite to whatever - an IFC file should have no more that 1 (one) IfcSite, it is added automatically (even if not present in the model) or it is the first DTM object in the layers assigned to Site in Layer Mapping/IFC Export dialog;

 

Seems I completely misunderstood IFCSite.

(I also wondered why I have meanwhile 4 Sites in IFC)

For me it was understood as kind of building site - everything that is not the Building itself.

Like neighbored houses, streets, plants, .....

As I have these on separate Layers, so far I added these Layers all to IFC Site "Story"

 

So if I got that right,

it would be still wrong to just tag such objects as IFC_Site and assign their Layers to

Entrance Level Story in IFC Export Settings ?

So only a one and only "DTM" should be tagged as Site ?

 

 

2.

 

4 hours ago, Mihail Rizov said:

Another option is to choose Extended Vectorworks Model View (Export IFC Project -> Data tab -> Model View) - this will export any object that has 3D geometry as IfcBuildingElementProxy, so you don't need to bother with attaching IFC data;

 

This was new to me too.

A great workaround, to quickly export custom only geometries from preliminary designs

or for VW IFC 4.0 exports from objects that were only tagged in IFC 2x3.

 

Generally I still don't think it is a good idea to have 90% of the geometry assigned as

IfcBuildingElementProxy only, as it will not help or sort in any kind of hierarchical

BIM Structure Browser.

 

 

Nevertheless for my personal purposes, "Extended Vectorworks Model View" could

be an ideal workflow as I would not forget any custom objects :

- no need to care about any IFC in VW

- VW IFC Export - Extended Vectorworks Model View option

- Bricscad IFC Import

- delete all "IfcBuildingElementProxy" Tags

- run BIMIFY over untagged objects and let the "AI" do the work

 

 

4 hours ago, Mihail Rizov said:

In your file, there are multiple groups with IfcSite and many symbols with IfcSite inside - sorry, this does not make sense,

 

Yes, as in 1.

(solved)

 

 

3.

 

4 hours ago, Mihail Rizov said:

- When you attach IFC Data to a group - this means you want to create an aggregate IFC Entity - e.g. complex roofs/stairs/ramps can be created and exported to IFC in this way.

 

 

I accidentally tagged Groups ?

(Even to use Groups in general if avoidable as there is no real VW Group equivalent

in DWG and just make it more tedious in DWG)

 

Should not have happened.

As I learned in the past that when I assign IFC Tags to a Group,

which contains IFC tagged Objects,

these will be omitted completely for IFC Export.

 

It IFC tagging only worked for me this way with Symbols.

Does this have changed meanwhile ?

Is it now a valid workflow to use Groups to create "aggregate IFC Entities" ?

Edited by zoomer
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Hi @Mihail Rizov

 

now I checket your IFC Export.

 

1.

VW asked when importing your IFC, if I want to exclude any objects.

There I saw VW offering more than 50 IFC Buildings to deactivate or

choose from. Which made me a bit uncomfortable - was no problem

afterwards in VW though.

(Bricscad imported all building geometry inside a single IFC Building

though, which is good and as expected)

 

2.

The problematic and unexpected 2D Geometry, above of my upper

rounded and standard Walls (Attica) that you can see in VW IFC Imports.

Are not existing in Bricscad's IFC import - which is fine.

So maybe just an VW IFC Import issue.

 

3.

In case of the Test File, which do not contain any other IFCSite Elements,

beside those 88 Tree Dummy instances ...

Are missing when I import the IFC to VW ?

While they translate fine into Bricscad.

(Inside a single "IFCSite")

 

4.

So far I was used that "scaled" Symbols, at least non-symmetric scaled Symbol's

Instances will lose their Instancing State in IFC and translate all as individual new

Symbol (Duplicates).

And it does still look so when importing IFC back into VW ...

But I see that in Bricscad IFC Import, e.g. the "Facade Sheet Metal Covers",

are still coming in as a single parent Symbol and scaled Instances ...

This is great !

 

 

5.

This strange Z-shift of all "Facade Sheet Metal Covers",

which should Z-align with and cover all outer Walls,

translates into Bricscads IFC imports too !

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