Architects = visual people need visual tools + training

[alanmac]

Mike

In my opinion the fact nobody responded to your Uni classes is criminal and a golden opportunity missed.

When I started to research the move from drawing board to computer some years ago I contacted my local colleges etc in the area. Without exception they all trained CAD using Autocad and I think that situation exists even today. Supplemented with learning something like Studio Max for visuals etc.

I'd be at home screaming " but I don't want to use Auto ***** cad !! Apart from the very high price I didn't like the attitude of Autodesk which even permeated down through to local dealer level, treated as if they were doing you a favour in letting you buy it. If you baulked at or questioned the price they'd look down their nose at you and implied if you couldn't afford it then you can't do the job !!.

Then come out with fancy leasing packages for six thousand pounds including a specially built workstation of their manufacturer. How the money rolled in.

Then when I found out about Minicad, with its 3D capabilities at less than the price of 2D Autocad Lt the usual reply was "Never heard of it" or "if you want a professional CAD program there is only one"

I would have loved to have had the advantage of college or university classes in Vectorworks, but I have to admit it would be because this works out much cheaper than one to one onsite training. Even now, to my knowledge, in the UK the number of VW trainers can be counted on the fingers of one hand - the whole UK. Yet I know many many companies using the software, at least three of my design clients due to my personal use and recommendation.

If the young students are being trained on something else then you have twice the task when it comes to getting them to change.

If the horse won't drink take another closer look, you may have got hold of an ass instead !!

All the best

Alan

[mike m oz]

Alanmac

The classes didn't even get past the proposal stage because without the users supporting the proposal I couldn't demonstrate that there was a demand.

[ 02-24-2005, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: mike m oz ]

[alanmac]

Mike

That's a crying shame, but at least you tried.

I do think that Nemetschek could do more, certainly in the UK, working with its national distributor, Computers Unlimited, to push and promote Vectorworks in colleges and Uni's more.

They are (CU)holding seminars to promote and show how VW works and such - but you actually have to pay to go to these!!

Dealing more with the higher professional user looking to change it would seem.

In my opinion their efforts would be better spent on the new users of tomorrow, winning them over, using VW before anything else, not only trying to convert the old user of something else to Vectorworks.

Whilst I'm sure a few Vectorworks users have switched to say Archicad for whatever reason I bet not many have (by choice) switched from Vectorworks to Autocad.

It seems any CAD program other than Autocad just does not appear on any of the courses at most of the UK colleges or Uni's.

That's a problem for Nemetschek to worry about, for us its "pushing against an open door" as one of my clients likes to say, when he's not drinking water ;~)

Port anyone?

Alan

[mike m oz]

The marketing of VW in the UK appears to be woeful

I have been into the Computers Unlimited site and it does absolutely nothing for me. In fact the site is painful to use.

A web designer once commented to me that you only have seconds to 'grab' a browsers attention and entice them to explore further. The CU site definately does not do this.

University of Liverpool teaches VW - follow the links on the NNA site from the Partners section

CORRECTION - I GOT IT WRONG ABOUT COMPUTERS UNLIMITED SITE

The CU site is okay these days - much better than it used to be.

The site I was thinking of as being painfull is this site www.vectorworks.co.uk/

[ 03-03-2005, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: mike m oz ]

[alanmac]

It's a while since I looked at the Liverpool Uni site in my trawls of the internet, and they've improved and added alot. So one down, only another few hundred to go !! I'd say Bournemouth Uni, Salisbury and Portsmouth (my neck of the woods) are a ideal educational establishments to target.

Sadly as you say the same cannot be said for CU site although they have created a "design section" which reflects the mailer they send out but it really mirrors details of software from manufacturers literature and promotes these paying seminars. Could be so much more.

Gone a little astray from the original post as it does, but I guess my take on it is, yes things could be made easier but also more features equal more complexity and its a trade off between the two. Whilst training videos, manuals etc can also be improved and added to it needs a willingness by the user to make the effort to learn. Its those horses again.

[ 02-25-2005, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

[buz]

I have thought about weighing in here and decided 'what the heck'.

I imagine a majority of you are serious architects while there may be a few like me who use .5% of the features offered in VWA. My point is I find VWA so exceedingly easy to use it makes me smile. I have used VW since MiniCad7 and since those days probably don't have 1000 hours logged in. I have never taken a class, am barely high school educated and am totally lost on Architectural standards, particularly as they regard project layout, set up etc.

The furthest I have managed to take VWA is through 3D modeling and flyovers and walk throughs. Drawing a polygon for a foot print is the toughest part. Automatic slabs, walls, roofs ... not sure what more I could ask for. Actually there are two things - automatic sections and elevations. An OIP to change practically any parameter I want .... after the fact, re-postion with a couple clicks. I designed a kitchen for this lady and took it to her house on my laptop and an hour later with fifty or more changes she was beaming like a new born - that kitchen is as good as in the bank and VWA sold it.

When I went from 10 to 11 I didn't upgrade RenderWorks this time as I have never had the time to figure it out .... for some reason it appears/seems/feels very poorly supported. Selecting the RenderWorks palette and I get one little button to play with told me nothing as did the manual (which is where I start).

I hope this isn't sounding like a braggart (sp) but I like when I 'have to draw'. Problem is I wear too many hats.

Another nice surprise just today, my wide format printer (HP cp1700) came out of storage (we're remodeling ours finally) for a small set of plans to get hard copy for building permits and all I could think about was the tedious frustrations getting it to output exactly as i wanted. Perusing the HP site I found they had released a new driver and plug and play is BACK Yahoooo.

Pardon my rambling ... yes there are some things wanting to be improved ... and maybe in time ... keep telling those developer folks what you want/need. (auto sections and elevations)

If a little builder like myself can afford to keep up with the updates ... anyone with a need for CAD can as well. Really, what are we talking a few hundred bucks every other year ... maybe.

[mike m oz]

buz - like you I taught myself. Not just one program but several.

When you can do this it is difficult to understand why others can't. I don't think I really appreciated how difficult it was for other people until I started providing support and training.

What still frustrates me though is the people who won't help themselves by purchasing and using the excellent training materials that are available, or avail themself of the training that I provide at fairly modest rates.

There is also a certain sector who come what may want to be taught in an academic institution - for some reason they believe this shows that it is a 'real' program. I can see that there is a credibility issue here - if the program is taught in institutions then it must be a good product.

In my opinion NNA would be well served by doing whatever they have to to get the program into more universities and colleges. After all this strategy worked well for ArchiCAD in gaining market share. Even today both ArchiCAD and AutoCAD almost give their programs away to student, as they realise that once you have them as a user they are likely to stay a user. VW does the same but the catch is it is not taught in that many student contexts, and therefore the imperative to choose the program in the first place does not exist

Another thing which surprises me is the lack of visible promotion for VW - you never see any ads, and there have been very few reviews on VW 11.

[ 02-26-2005, 04:28 AM: Message edited by: mike m oz ]