Wall Tool vs. Wall Type Tool

[ThinAirDesigns]

I'm amazed that I spent near a thousand bucks on VW manuals/books/CDs (Nemetschek and third party) and I still can't find a decent description of the difference between the Wall Tool and the Wall Type Tool. Am I just a moron? (don't answer that. lol)

The context sensitive help (F1) brings up a different page for both tools, but the descriptions are ambiguous about any specific difference.

A search of the help Index finds an entry for 'Wall Tool' but nothing for 'Wall Type Tool'.

Select 'Wall, Creating' from the help index, and a dialog box pops up asking you to choose between 'VW' help and 'Architect' help. Both selections bring up topics called "Creating Walls". One(VW version) doesn't reference ANY tool at all(very strange) and the other references the Wall Type Tool.

Could someone give me a helpful hand? -- and additionally, VW should see if they can rectify the ambiguity in the help system. A "Tool Map" in the documentation showing an exploded view of each pallet with associated help would be an excellent addition. Making sure that each tool has an entry in the Index would also be a big help.

Thanks in advance.

JB

[ 12-25-2004, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: ThinAirDesigns ]

[mike m oz]

TAD

The Wall Tool is part of VectorWorks Basic. It provides all of the wall tool functiionality, but the user has to create the cavities (these should really be called components) that make up the construction of the wall when it is viewed in 2D.

The Wall Type Tool comes with Architect and allows you to create and save preset wall types (ie. overall width and individual width of the components which make up the wall). These wall types can then be easily recalled saving you the bother of having to recreate them each time you want to use them. They can also be preset to be a particular class, have a particular height and have records attached to them.

All of the latter can also be done with the 'manual' Wall Tool. The Wall Type Tool simply 'automates' some of these functions allowing you to work more quickly and effectively. You will probably still have to think through what it is you are trying to do and either alter the existing preset wall types, or create new ones.

My experience is that new users have problems with the Wall Tool because of the way the wall components (aka cavities) have to be formed relative to the centreline of the wall. It really would be beneficial if NNA were to standardise the method of wall creation across both tools. VW Basic could require you to create each wall type as you require it, like now, and VW Architect could allow you to save the wall types for later re-use.

[Robert Anderson]

The other thing the Wall Type tool does is attach a record to the wall it creates. This record is defined by the wall type. The record stores information about the wall (including its height) that can be accessed by the ID tool.

[ThinAirDesigns]

Thanks to Mike and Robert for their helpful explanations.

Mike:

>The Wall Tool is part of VectorWorks

>Basic. It provides all of the wall

>tool functiionality, but the user has

>to create the cavities (these should

>really be called components) that make

>up the construction of the wall when

>it is viewed in 2D.

>The Wall Type Tool comes with Architect

>and allows you to create and save preset

>wall types

Your explanation makes it sound as though with the "wall tool" you can't select from a list of wall types, or create and save your own. However, even with the "classic" workspace selected (no Architect), I can go to the "Model > Architectural > Select Wall Type..." menu and do all of that stuff. In fact, it's the same set of dialog boxes that appear in the "AEC > Select Wall Type..." menu when the Architectural workspace is selected.

I'm still confused, but your description did at least lead me to conclude that if I just use the "Wall Type Tool" and leave the "Wall Tool" in it's sheath I won't be losing any functionality.

If there *is* usable functionality in the "Wall Tool" that is missing in the "Wall Type Tool" I am missing it and would still appreciate it being pointed out.

Thanks again, and suggestions for Nemetschek would be to improve that area in the documentation (which is excellent overall btw)and only show one wall tool on any given palette.

JB

[LarryAZ]

JB,

It works automatically for me. I have "w" on the keyboard setup to execute the "wall type" but when I draw and have a wall with a cavity selected VW switches to "wall" while I'm drawing then switches back when I'm finished. I have to admit I never did know why this happens but it seems to work just fine.

Larry

[Robert Anderson]

There is no missing functionality in the "wall" tool. The "Wall type" tool in fact calls the "wall" tool to do the actual wall placement (this is why you still have it in your workspace). However, I strongly recommend using the "wall type" tool, for the reason of the aforementioned record.

[Jonathan Pickup]

The wall type tool uses the wall type library (the dialog box you get when you choose AEC > Select Wall type).

The wall type library allows you to set up a wall ahead of time. For this wall type you can define:

- the separation of the wall (wall thickness);

- wall height (if you don?t want to use the ?Z);

? cavities;

? class that the wall is assigned to.

So that when you want to draw a wall of a specific colour, line weight, height, etc, you can use the wall type tool to draw a ?type? of wall.

This topic is covered in more detail with examples in my manual ?Architect Tutorial Manual? available from my web site:

http://www.archoncad.co.nz

[JHEarcht]

JB

The Wall Type Tool is specifically for architectural walls with pre-set materials and sizes. However, the basic Wall Tool can be used for various non-wall objects. I often use "walls" to draw complex 2D storefront elevations, so I can use the "join" tools that don't work for polygons. You can also draw any kind of vertical rectilinear slab in 3D without the extra step of extruding.

JHE

[ThinAirDesigns]

Robert:

>There is no missing functionality in the

>"wall" tool.

I of course don't have the breadth of experience that others on this board have, but the above has been consistent with my current experience -- that is why I, as someone who is trying to learn the usage of all the tools, have found it confusing...two tools side by side that behave almost exactly the same and with no clear documentation.

Thanks for all the responses. I have appreciated it.

JB

[Jonathan Pickup]

I think that you need to understand that the Wall type tool works in conjunction with the wall type library, and your class standards to be a really useful function .

[ThinAirDesigns]

ArchonCad

>This topic is covered in more detail with

>examples in my manual ?Architect Tutorial

>Manual? available from my web site:

Hi Jonathan. Take no offense from this as I own your manuals and am a huge fan of your work, but your materials on this subject are as confusing (and in some ways just plain wrong) as the other material I have.

Example:

Pg, 142 of your referenced Architect Tutorial Manual. "To use wall types from the Wall Type Library, you must use the Wall Type Tool".

The above does not reflect my experience, as I can follow your instructions on how to create a new wall in the library and then the simple "Wall Tool" will happily draw that wall from that library.

For now at least, my experience tells me that Robert (above) is correct and the only difference is regarding the record.

Of course I'm still willing and eager to learn more.

JB

[ 12-30-2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: ThinAirDesigns ]

[Jonathan Pickup]

hey, I?m still willing to learn, and I will amend my manual when i get a chance.

I will try what you have suggested, but it may be that the wall type tool is needed to draw the wall to the height set up in the wall type library. Also, does the standard wall tool draw the wall on the correct class?

[ThinAirDesigns]

Jonathan:

>I will try what you have suggested, but it

>may be that the wall type tool is needed to

>draw the wall to the height set up in the

>wall type library. Also, does the standard

>wall tool draw the wall on the correct class?

As I am just learning the software, I have not done a comprehensive set of tests to determine exact behavior. As I get more familiar with the app I may feel qualified to do that -- meanwhile I'll let y'all in the Biz keep me straight. :-)

Thanks again to all.

JB

[Jonathan Pickup]

I have just checked, and the wall tool will only use the wal separation (thickness) and cavities, it won?t use the other bits like the record, class and wall height.

[Jonathan Pickup]

one of the beauties of the wall type tool is that it does use the class and wall height. I use the wall type tool to draw foundation walls, cavity walls, timber walls, partition walls... all of these are drawn on the same layer but on different classes, and they have dfferent heights.

[ThinAirDesigns]

Thanks for the update Jonathan. I will certainly want to utilized those features.

JB