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Site model from large amount of 3d Loci


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I¬†received a dwg containing a large amount of 3D loci, roughly 250.000, as survey data. I'm not sure if that's considered a "point cloud" but it's certainly a large amount of points ūüôā¬†I can't even select them all without getting the eternal spinning¬†wheel in WV so I can't really create¬†a site model from the file. My idea was to import the¬†dwg into WV and then¬†select the points and "create model from source data".¬†Any tips for handling the situation? DWG attached.

Bro_SW1800.dwg

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Anders

a word of advice....:-)

Next time, tell your bone-headed surveyor to use continuous 3d polygons instead of millions of 3d loci ! ¬†ūüôā

The file is fairly large....mainly because of all those 3d loci.

I created the file in meters, guessing that is what you use in your location on Planet Earth. I just used a scale of 1:500, but you can change that.

 

ANDERS SITE MODEL V2020.vwx.zip

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In fact.....if you contact the person who created the dwg file, they may be able to export it using the continuous 3d polygons......worth a try.

Then, import that. ¬†It should go a bit easier. Then, because they ARE 3d polys, you have the ability to choose the 'Simplify Polys' menu item to reduce the amount of vertices for each 3d poly. It¬†is a great trick! ūüôā

 

559868072_ScreenShot2021-11-01at3_45_34AM.png.72303df216c79ec5b9230ba62f4812f2.png

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2 hours ago, Kevin K said:

Next time, tell your bone-headed surveyor to use continuous 3d polygons instead of millions of 3d loci ! ¬†ūüôā

 

@Kevin KSeems there is a lot of¬†bone-headed advice floating around here ūüôā

 

@Anders Blomberg If you are working with a surveyor, learn about importing the actual surveying points from a CSV file and request the data in that (not some generated points from a TIN or point cloud).  If you are working with a drone or 3D scanner operator, request the capture as an actual point cloud file in a format Vectorworks can import and have at it (generally not recommended compared to simple survey importing)

 

The file you posted appears to be interpreted surfaces converted to CAD points or an actual point cloud converted to CAD points, which is not the most accurate or efficient method of dealing with topographic data.   Who knows how you got it and who made the original request for information, but there are better ways to go about this.

 

Know what data requirements you have and make the request accordingly.

 

Edit, I too was able to successfully import the dwg and create a site model from point.  Based on the spacing of the points and the site model generated,  it seems like these points were generated by interpreting Lidar or photogrametry data, as the surface is bumpy and reminiscent of a forest canopy.  Further, there are no elevation points for what appear to be bodies of water.  It would be interesting to know more about the project and if my suspicions are correct.

Edited by jeff prince
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@Kevin K Wonderful! Seems like I lost the correct coordinates for the model there though? How did you manage to create the model?

 

I didn't request the data myself but got it from a contractor. The origin of the file is the national Swedish terrain model. It might be possible to request the data in another format, I'll ask. The contractor had no issues handling the data as it was delivered in Novapoint.

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1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

Wow well done Kevin I got the eternal spinning beach ball too how did you manage to import the loci?

Tom

Not sure, but perhaps because I have my souped-up iMac Pro to thank ūüôā

 

As you know, when you import dwg data you can choose to bring it in as:

-all 2d

-2d & 3d (which is the dumbest thing I have ever have  heard of)

-or all 3d data. (which is best when creating site models)

Because Anders mentioned there were tons of 3d loci,  so I chose all 3d....which probably wasn't really necessary, but maybe thats why it arrived a bit faster?

When I import dwg/autoBad survey data I import it first as all 2d,  for the basic top plan view of the site plan, then as all 3d for creation of the 3d site model. 

 

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Anders

Not sure what you mean by 'correct coordinates'?

I just imported it as 'all 3d data' and it did take about a minute or so for all those pesky 3d loci to appear.

I also moved all the data to fit on the center of a 24x36 sheet...perhaps I should not have done that?

 

Under the circumstances, you may not be able to get the data as continuous 3d polys, as I had mentioned, because of the Swedish terrain Model source, but as you noted, you can ask ūüôā

 

Not sure what you plan to do with the site model, but with what I gave you, will it work ok??

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Kevin K said:

I also moved all the data to fit on the center of a 24x36 sheet...perhaps I should not have done that?

Yup, that move is the issue. It was located with correct coordinates within Sweref99 18 00, the local system. Now it sits in the middle of the Atlantic ūüôā

 

I had no issues importing the loci but couldn't select them for transforming. I'll have another go and see if it makes a difference to import with 3D only, as suggested. I really thought my hyped M1 would be able to handle more than the old Intel processor. Maybe it's a memory thing, it's on the short side there.

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4 minutes ago, Anders Blomberg said:

Yup, that move is the issue. It was located with correct coordinates within Sweref99 18 00, the local system. Now it sits in the middle of the Atlantic ūüôā

 

I had no issues importing the loci but couldn't select them for transforming. I'll have another go and see if it makes a difference to import with 3D only, as suggested. I really thought my hyped M1 would be able to handle more than the old Intel processor. Maybe it's a memory thing, it's on the short side there.

 

The file you provided was successfully opened and converted into a site model on a 2015 Macbook Pro with 16GB of ram in my case.  It generated in under a minute.  You will want to geolocate it per your requirements.

 

 

survey test.vwx

Edited by jeff prince
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hahahaha.....the middle of the Atlantic ūüôā¬†Yeah, would be tough to build something on that floating site model !!!

 

My bad...

Let me know and I can reimport it and WON'T move it, and send it to you.....

Or...you¬†can asked 'Mr Bonehead-Prince to do it for¬†ya. ūüôā

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Kevin K said:

Tom

Not sure, but perhaps because I have my souped-up iMac Pro to thank ūüôā

 

As you know, when you import dwg data you can choose to bring it in as:

-all 2d

-2d & 3d (which is the dumbest thing I have ever have  heard of)

-or all 3d data. (which is best when creating site models)

Because Anders mentioned there were tons of 3d loci,  so I chose all 3d....which probably wasn't really necessary, but maybe thats why it arrived a bit faster?

When I import dwg/autoBad survey data I import it first as all 2d,  for the basic top plan view of the site plan, then as all 3d for creation of the 3d site model. 

 

Thanks I never really looked at that setting when importing DWG I always leave it set to '2D + 3D'... But I think my problem was impatience: I didn't wait for the pesky 3D Loci to appear, I just pressed Command-A + that brought out the beach ball. But tried again + was fine - even using the 2D + 3D setting. Patience...

 

18 minutes ago, Anders Blomberg said:

It was located with correct coordinates within Sweref99 18 00, the local system. Now it sits in the middle of the Atlantic ūüôā

You need to import the survey file into georeferenced file + in the import options make sure 'The file contains georeferenced geometry' is enabled

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Speaking of scanning terrain models. I played around with the Ladar features my new iPhone 13 Pro. Surely, it could not be used for scanning terrain models, right ?

Ehm, after having tried it, I'm not so sure. The 20 by 36 meter model took ten minutes to scan, by walking around waving with the phone back and forth (the Ladar can only see about five meters at the time), and when I placed it over the map it actually fitted surprisingly well. Heights where totally reasonable too.  Imported without a hitch into VW. WHAT!!! ? It's just a phone!!?? 

 

Furthermore, I was curious to see how far I could go in size without the system freaking out completely, so I took a walk around a small local lake, having a circumference of about two kilometers, walking on a park gravel path, measure the water level here and there. It turned out that the system freaked out around 1.8 kilometers, though it did not crash. I imported the model into VW and placed a satellite picture map over it. Again, the scan matched the path very well up to about 1 kilometer, and then started to drift a bit. Made of a copy of the scan and rotated it, at the the rest was fine again. Somehow, it managed to keep track of the heights relative to the water lever across the scan. What can I say, but what? and wow!

 

I used a scanning program called Scaniverse, which was a free download on App Store. 

 

 

Scan.jpg

Edited by Claes Lundstrom
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@Claes Lundstrom excuse my ignorance but it comes into VW as an OBJ file right? Which is essentially a mesh? So would one convert it to a Generic Solid + seek to edit it that way if you needed to? Or could it be converted into a Site Model? I'm thinking if there were details you wanted to remove to clean it up - vegetation or architectural features or whatever - so you were left with just the terrain. Then you wanted to modify the terrain as you would a proposed site model.

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24 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

@Claes Lundstrom excuse my ignorance but it comes into VW as an OBJ file right? Which is essentially a mesh? So would one convert it to a Generic Solid + seek to edit it that way if you needed to? Or could it be converted into a Site Model? I'm thinking if there were details you wanted to remove to clean it up - vegetation or architectural features or whatever - so you were left with just the terrain. Then you wanted to modify the terrain as you would a proposed site model.

Yes it comes in as a textured polygon mesh, so it can be used as a solid. This can be handy for trimming off unwanted objects, and things that don't scan well, such as shiny and reflective objects, and thin objects like branches, shrubs and bicycles to mention a few examples, and when the model starts to drift a little. In this case I caused such a drift by jumping down to the sidewalk, which wasn't a good idea for the scan. It is a fairly steep model and was rather slippery. 

 

It basically consists of polygon triangles, but it's usually not a good idea to explode it, as VW moves into a crawl.  Most likely, you can use it to create a digital terrain model too, yes. Should also be mentioned that the program used exports as FBX, OBJ, GLB, USDZ, STL, PLY and LAS, so there are plenty to choose from when it comes to importing to VW. What I found useful was that you can render the model in OpenGL and use the textures to identify known points, for example trees, fences, etc. 

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@Claes Lundstrom& @Tom W.

the Lidar found in the iPhone Pro and iPad Pro is cool, but it is really a toy compared to hiring professional capture/survey… a toy that can introduce significant error into a project.  So, I primarily use it to scan site specific elements like tree trunks, cacti, boulders, and other entourage… which it is very good at.  We are spoiled by the tools we have today, but must remain vigilant about accuracy.

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1 hour ago, jeff prince said:

@Claes Lundstrom& @Tom W.

the Lidar found in the iPhone Pro and iPad Pro is cool, but it is really a toy compared to hiring professional capture/survey… a toy that can introduce significant error into a project.  So, I primarily use it to scan site specific elements like tree trunks, cacti, boulders, and other entourage… which it is very good at.  We are spoiled by the tools we have today, but must remain vigilant about accuracy.

 

Nobody expects it to be as good as the pro equipment, but for smaller projects it may very well be fairly usable, and for getting rough estimates. It was however way better than I expected. And having it in your pocket at all times is great, and its quick.

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7 hours ago, Claes Lundstrom said:

 

Nobody expects it to be as good as the pro equipment,


You would be surprised ūüôā

I have a couple of architect clients that use their IPads to scan existing buildings and then wonder why it either takes longer to complete their projects or results in dimensional busts.  Once you know the limitations and operate within them, it can be a handy tool.

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8 hours ago, jeff prince said:


You would be surprised ūüôā

I have a couple of architect clients that use their IPads to scan existing buildings and then wonder why it either takes longer to complete their projects or results in dimensional busts.  Once you know the limitations and operate within them, it can be a handy tool.

 

I have for sure tested it indoors too, and even though it wobbles a bit and generates rounded corners etc, I'm still amazed when I scan from room to room. You need to wing it a bit and double-check key measurements, but the voids generated by walls are clearly there and they are reasonably correct. 

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