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Wall Component Wrapping UI


E|FA

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As a followup to this thread (https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/87667-2022-wall-component-modeling/) about how to set up Wall Component Wrapping (for which @Matt Panzer has provided great feedback), I have some suggestions/questions regarding improvements to the UI that would make this all a bit less confusing.  There are settings that are similarly named, but do different things (?) that you get to in different places, unlabeled columns that need to be checked, etc.  I'm guessing that after I've used these for a while I'll get the hang of it, but starting out it is incredibly confusing, at least to me.  Other users might have an easier time of it.  I'm attaching some annotated screenshots that offer a window into my confusion.  

 

 720432291_WallClosuresUI.thumb.jpg.0c78475baed0547412532e5d6bdbcba1.jpg1075283785_PluginWallInsertion.thumb.jpg.2d5e4b03a5669fcdcdfa22226d1c92b7.jpg

 

323378381_WallStyleUI.thumb.jpg.13b3fe48a7195f1fefa2a91060dc5742.jpg

 

As a semi-related bonus, there's an inconsistency in the corner window settings.  Everywhere else, there is an option for "Fixed Glass", but at the corner window this is called "Fixed Glass".  Are these supposed to be the same?

 

883722531_WindowStyle-Corner.thumb.jpg.6aec525900b0ad8a1f2f3cc923a0026f.jpg

 

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See comments below:

 

14 hours ago, E|FA said:

As a followup to this thread (https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/87667-2022-wall-component-modeling/) about how to set up Wall Component Wrapping (for which @Matt Panzer has provided great feedback), I have some suggestions/questions regarding improvements to the UI that would make this all a bit less confusing.  There are settings that are similarly named, but do different things (?) that you get to in different places, unlabeled columns that need to be checked, etc.  I'm guessing that after I've used these for a while I'll get the hang of it, but starting out it is incredibly confusing, at least to me.  Other users might have an easier time of it.  I'm attaching some annotated screenshots that offer a window into my confusion.  

 

 720432291_WallClosuresUI.thumb.jpg.0c78475baed0547412532e5d6bdbcba1.jpg

 

While I do think it's clear what the Profile Offsets do, I agree that the Offset in the Wall Closure dialog could be better - as well with the other items in that dialog.

 

14 hours ago, E|FA said:

1075283785_PluginWallInsertion.thumb.jpg.2d5e4b03a5669fcdcdfa22226d1c92b7.jpg

 

What is it that you don't find clear about these items?  I have a feeling these controls may've been more confusing to exiting users due to how they differ from the previous version.

 

14 hours ago, E|FA said:

323378381_WallStyleUI.thumb.jpg.13b3fe48a7195f1fefa2a91060dc5742.jpg

 

Good suggestions!  However, there may be technical reasons some of these are separate dialogs.  Since the Wall closure dialog can be called from a Wall Style, a Wall object, and a Wall Insert, we wanted to keep them consistent.  I believe the IFC is a standard dialog.  However, the Wall Attributes probably could be put in their own tab.  These are things we could look into.

 

14 hours ago, E|FA said:

As a semi-related bonus, there's an inconsistency in the corner window settings.  Everywhere else, there is an option for "Fixed Glass", but at the corner window this is called "Fixed Glass".  Are these supposed to be the same?

 

883722531_WindowStyle-Corner.thumb.jpg.6aec525900b0ad8a1f2f3cc923a0026f.jpg

 

 

Strange.  It says "Fixed Glass" on my computer in VW 2022 SP1.

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@Matt Panzer As I keep working through this, I'm getting a better of understanding, but there are still things that confuse me and I have additional UI suggestions.  Here are some followups:

 

1.  For the Wall Closure at Inserts window UI:

 

2079932715_WallClosureatInsertsUI.thumb.jpg.db90bd1bf0b9217dc9bac87f5bd24212.jpg

 

2. I think I FINALLY figured out what is related to what in the "Insertion Relative To"  in the Window Style, and Window in Wall OIP.  The pulldown lets you choose what part of the Window profile is aligned to the exterior face of the wall Core.  I don't think this is explicitly stated anywhere.  It would be great if an additional explanation (and a diagram) were added to the help file in case I'm not the only user who is a little slow on the uptake: https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2022/eng/VW2022_Guide/Windows/Inserting_windows.htm#TOC_Window_settings_General .  AND there's a separate place (Plug In Style Options) to select which part of the wall the window aligns to.  Is this correct?  If so, improved UI and help files would be appreciated.

 

1018500631_WallWindowalignmentUI.jpg.0f519a16e3f113ff501eb11a2670fd7c.jpg

 

3. In the Edit Wall Style window, I think some form of consolidation of options at the top, even if they aren't tabs, would help.  I think the IFC settings are consistent with other dialogs in the bottom left, but I'd definitely prefer to have the "Wall Closure At Inserts..." button somewhere along the top.  I'm reattaching the image:

 

323378381_WallStyleUI.thumb.jpg.13b3fe48a7195f1fefa2a91060dc5742.jpg.8ab1b424a70f372cef9a68bfd2eb76c8.jpg

 

4. "Flush" vs "Fixed" glass in the corner window dialog appears to have been fixed in SP1.

 

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Thanks for your comments.

Comments below:

 

On 10/19/2021 at 10:07 PM, E|FA said:

@Matt Panzer As I keep working through this, I'm getting a better of understanding, but there are still things that confuse me and I have additional UI suggestions.  Here are some followups:

 

1.  For the Wall Closure at Inserts window UI:

 

  • There should be "tool Tips" that appear on the screen on Mac when you hover the cursor over the column headers of the list browser.  This is a known issue.  Those will certain help clear up some of the issues.
  • The Core column is disabled and should not allow and changes, but it does due to a known bug.
  • There are some interactions between the "Wrap To" and "Wrap To Insert" settings.  They need to be separate for some more complex wrapping cases.  Some of these more complex cases are still being worked out but those are more unusual cases.  In any case, the best way to describe having both setting turned on is that the component will wrap to the "Wrap To" location unless it hits the insert first.  However, if it hits its "Wrap To" location first and its not yet at the insert, it will continue to find the insert.  In order to get these conditions, you probably need to be using a negative Profile Offset.
  • The reason for the Custom Thickness checkmark column is because it allows explicit decisions to use a custom thickness or to return to the walls component thickness.  If we didn't have this and the component thickness of the wall was changed, there it would be unclear whether to also change the custom thickness.  We did consider some way to be "smart" about how to manage this but, in the end, we think it's best to have it as an explicit option.
  • The preview in the dialog does is more generic and needs to be that way when the dialog is opened for a Wall or Wall Style.  It must be for a Wall Style because it has no idea what insert and insert setting will be used.  A Wall also doesn't know because it may have no inserts or multiple inserts with different settings.  However, when opening the dialog from an insert, we might be able to improve the preview because we do know about the insert.  This is something we plan to investigate.

 

On 10/19/2021 at 10:07 PM, E|FA said:

 

2. I think I FINALLY figured out what is related to what in the "Insertion Relative To"  in the Window Style, and Window in Wall OIP.  The pulldown lets you choose what part of the Window profile is aligned to the exterior face of the wall Core.  I don't think this is explicitly stated anywhere.  It would be great if an additional explanation (and a diagram) were added to the help file in case I'm not the only user who is a little slow on the uptake: https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2022/eng/VW2022_Guide/Windows/Inserting_windows.htm#TOC_Window_settings_General .  AND there's a separate place (Plug In Style Options) to select which part of the wall the window aligns to.  Is this correct?  If so, improved UI and help files would be appreciated.

 

These two settings are related but one is a Door or Window Plug-in Object setting and one os part of the general Wall Closure system that other Plug-in object may use.  These need to be separate because the Plug-in Object knows about it's own geometry and the setting controls where the geometry is located relative to its insertion point.  Other Plug-in Objects may have similar settings or something completely different.  They may not even have a "jamb" but some other thing they want to use to wrap to.  This is why the "Wrap to Insert" option is not called "Wrap to Jamb".  The Insert Location is telling the wall where to locate the Plug-in Object's insertion point within the wall..  So these settings must be separate.

 

On 10/19/2021 at 10:07 PM, E|FA said:

 

3. In the Edit Wall Style window, I think some form of consolidation of options at the top, even if they aren't tabs, would help.  I think the IFC settings are consistent with other dialogs in the bottom left, but I'd definitely prefer to have the "Wall Closure At Inserts..." button somewhere along the top.  I'm reattaching the image:

 

I think the reason some of these are separate buttons is because they're opening dialogs that can also be invoked in other places in the UI.  The Edit Wall Attribute may be the exception.  In any case, we could investigate this.

 

On 10/19/2021 at 10:07 PM, E|FA said:

4. "Flush" vs "Fixed" glass in the corner window dialog appears to have been fixed in SP1.

 

 

Ah good.  I was getting worried something strange was happening!  🙂 

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@Matt PanzerThanks for taking the time to consider and respond to my comments.  I hope my comments will be of some use in future updates.  It's nice to know that some were bugs that will be quashed, and there are underlying reasons for others.  

 

To be honest, UI improvements aren't the most important thing for me.  The most important thing for my use of VW features (especially new ones like Component Wrapping) is having good help files, not just of the individual commands, but an overall tutorial.  The Help system is lacking in this respect.  In this case, your video (https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/articles.html/articles/workflows/) and webinar (to be added to VW University?) were incredibly helpful. Having workflow tutorials similar to that previously posted by @PVA - Jim posted at https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/articles.html/articles/workflows/ would be really good idea to have at new feature launches.  I'm guessing this is outside of your purview, so will post it as a Wishlist item.

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1 hour ago, E|FA said:

@Matt PanzerThanks for taking the time to consider and respond to my comments.  I hope my comments will be of some use in future updates.  It's nice to know that some were bugs that will be quashed, and there are underlying reasons for others.  

 

You welcome!

Thank you for your suggestions as well!

We always want to improve the UI where we can, but it's not always obvious to users (or myself) why we sometimes do what we do. 😉 

 

1 hour ago, E|FA said:

To be honest, UI improvements aren't the most important thing for me.  The most important thing for my use of VW features (especially new ones like Component Wrapping) is having good help files, not just of the individual commands, but an overall tutorial.  The Help system is lacking in this respect.  In this case, your video (https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/articles.html/articles/workflows/) and webinar (to be added to VW University?) were incredibly helpful. Having workflow tutorials similar to that previously posted by @PVA - Jim posted at https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/articles.html/articles/workflows/ would be really good idea to have at new feature launches.  I'm guessing this is outside of your purview, so will post it as a Wishlist item.

 

Good help videos are always good!  Yes, posting in the Wish List forum is best to get it more attention.

Thanks!

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