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MacBook M1 chi


apswoodwork

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According to rumors,

the next M generation should be twice as fast for CPU Tasks

(8 instead 4 performance cores)

and even faster for GPU Tasks

(16 or 32 instead of 8 cores)

 

Which is nice but not the problem.

The bottleneck is the current limit to max 16 GB of shared RAM.

And I run into that limit very often, even with my typical project sizes.

Like when working with SLVPs.

Also no chance to comfortably open your project in more than one App

at the same time. Like VW, Bricscad and Twinmotion plus Safari, Mail, ....

 

So I would no more go with less than 64 GB RAM (like on the PC).

But that amount of RAM, with Apple Tax, may get quite expensive.

If available at all (?)

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On 10/7/2021 at 9:25 AM, zoomer said:

According to rumors,

the next M generation should be twice as fast for CPU Tasks

(8 instead 4 performance cores)

and even faster for GPU Tasks

(16 or 32 instead of 8 cores)

 

Which is nice but not the problem.

The bottleneck is the current limit to max 16 GB of shared RAM.

And I run into that limit very often, even with my typical project sizes.

Like when working with SLVPs.

Also no chance to comfortably open your project in more than one App

at the same time. Like VW, Bricscad and Twinmotion plus Safari, Mail, ....

 

So I would no more go with less than 64 GB RAM (like on the PC).

But that amount of RAM, with Apple Tax, may get quite expensive.

If available at all (?)

 

This prompted me to watch what is happening with memory on my M1 when I'm working in a big file in VW2021.

 

Because sometimes, the file becomes really unresponsive, but is fine when I quit and re-start Vectorworks. It seems like VW gradually fills up the memory while I am working, but it never does anything to reduce the memory use. So eventually it always reaches the limit. I don't know enough about how things are supposed to work, to know if this is what should be happening.

 

Here is what it looks like after I have had the file open for a day or two while I work on it.

 

304755158_Screenshot2021-10-08at10_22_25.jpg.c902bbf5a4645bc89e814bfed785b027.jpg

 

Here is what it looks like when I close that file (but keep VW open):

 

539940271_Screenshot2021-10-08at10_23_54.jpg.6304d68b01d46fa892d8d72349dbb132.jpg

 

And here is what it looks like when I quit VW, and then re-open that file to start working on it again:

 

676035934_Screenshot2021-10-08at10_26_08.jpg.a0bfb3d01c560b8b5aed7aa4016ce87e.jpg

 

 

So, is it when I am working on sheet layers that it is somehow filling the memory up?

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I tend to keep an eye on Activity Monitor + have noticed the same thing on my iMac: that the memory load gradually increases + things get slower + more bogged down until I shut down + restart which seems to 'reset' things. Or it might be more immediate + related to something like updating a VP: the operation puts a big load on memory but after completion the memory load doesn't come down again, it remains high until I shut down + restart.

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64 Undos here.

But I see the same Memory increase on Windows.

 

Generally native Vw 2022 - at least starts a file - with much less Memory usage

than VW 2021 under Rosetta.

 

 

I also always watch my Activity Monitor.

As soon as Memory Pressure gets brownish, it is no more fun to work ....

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I am only on 20 undos - I never changed it from the default - but plenty of occasions I wished I'd set it higher!

 

From Jim in Knowledgebase:

 

1980677197_Screenshot2021-10-08at14_33_24.thumb.png.959299cda9c084532504bed5a74cec1a.png

 

Presumably with undos set to 64 you notice the difference very quickly (after 64 actions) rather than the kind of accumulative memory load increase over a couple of days we're talking about here.

 

I think for me it's only been when I've been doing stuff on sheet layers that things have really ground to a halt + I've had to shut down VW + reopen the file to get things back to normal. In the general run of things I'm aware of the memory load gradually creeping up but not to the extent that it compromises performance. 

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5 hours ago, Tom W. said:

Presumably with undos set to 64 you notice the difference very quickly (after 64 actions) rather than the kind of accumulative memory load increase over a couple of days we're talking about here.

 

Hmmh, I also often had 99 in the past and never saw any problem.

 

But it might get more noticeably when working with SLVPs,

(Which I don't do that often)

where it will always hold every VP Update image file (?).

Will need to try lower Undos.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
On 10/19/2021 at 6:36 AM, Gilbert Osmond said:

M1Max has 10 CPU cores, 32 GPU cores. I went for the 64GB RAM option. 2021 MB Pro 16". Looking forward to seeing how some of my more complex models run on this, compared to my 2019 MB Pro 2.6Ghz core i7 / 16GB RAM.

Any update on this Gilbert ? 

Cheers

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7 hours ago, markymarc said:

Any update on this Gilbert ? 

Cheers

 As it turns out, I cancelled the M1Max 10-core / 32GPU core / 64GB and went for a lesser-spec'ced M1 Pro 16" Macbook with 32GB RAM. It's not due to arrive until mid-late Dec. My reason for going lower-spec was that after reading an Anandtech deep-dive on the M1 Pro vs. Max CPUs , it became clear to me that there's hardly any difference in single-threaded performance between these CPUs. It's only in very intensive multi-threaded and/or GPU-intensive workflows that an M1Max is justifiable.  For my needs, the step-up from a core i7 2.6Ghz to an M1 Pro / 32GB  ram is likely to fill my needs for at least 3-4 years.

Edited by Gilbert Osmond
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This is all very confusing to me.  Between the VW 2022 updates (and performance problems compared to VW2021 on my 2019 iMac), and the different Apple M1 upgrade options, I have no idea if I should stick with my relatively new hardware (and beautiful 27" 5K retina screen), or switch to some type of M1 hardware.  If I had any certainty as to which M1 options were the most cost effective for using VW, I would probably make the switch, even if the recommendation was to go all out and maximize all the CPU/GPU/RAM options.  However, I'd hate to do that if it turned out that an M1 Mini was sufficient for my workflow, using little to no Renderworks.  At this point there seems to be little to no guidance from VW as to what hardware configurations are most important for various VW workflows.

 

What I'd really like to see is for someone at VW to update @PVA - Jim's FAQ article for M1 Macs: https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/articles.html/articles/faqs/what-hardware-does-what-upgrading-your-hardware-for-vectorworks-r752/.  @JuanP, is there any chance that you could provide this kind of information as a much needed addition to your minimum/recommended system requirements article  https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/articles.html/articles/vectorworks-2022-system-requirements-r849/ , or relay this request to the appropriate person at VW?

 

 

 

 

Edited by E|FA
typo
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My feeling having moved from an oldish mac pro straight to an M1 mini is that VW works just fine on the M1 - rather than VW running spectacularly better on the M1. For me the main benefit of moving to the M1 was that I could move to a current version of macos (rather than being constrained to Mojave by my old hardware) and run various other software packages that I couldn't on my older machine.

 

I've not seen any massive benefit moving from VW2018 to VW2021 really - which I did only as a domino-effect of upgrading hardware - I could have happily carried on with VW2018 and saved the cash I gave to VW in return for questionable improvements.

 

The main thing that has speeded up somewhat is doing Renderworks renders, but you say that's not a major part of your workflow. I actually partly was also prompted in my hardware upgrade by the possibilities of trying out Twinmotion but there are still unfixed problems with transfer of files between it and VW so am not actually using it so far.

 

On the M1 mac mini, I feel that almost all problems experienced in VW are caused by the VW software, not limitations of the M1 hardware.

 

So I would say that if your current iMac is running OK, there's not a strong argument to move to new hardware at least from the point of view of running VW. And probably moving to new hardware won't solve any VW problems.

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18 minutes ago, J. Wallace said:

@line-weight a question for you if you don't mind, how does your mac mini perform with both VW and Twinmotion open?

We are looking to add a M1 Macbook pro but trying to sort out our requirements and how the Max vs Pro chips might meet those.

We were going to hold out for the updated Mac mini but can't wait that long. Thanks 

 

I can't really tell you how it does in "real world" use because so far I've only had Twinmotion and VW open for testing and a bit of fiddling around - I've not done any serious work in it yet. But from my limited experience so far, I've not noticed any obvious problems. If there's anything specific you'd like me to test let me know and I can see what I can do.

 

It might be that I will do a bit more testing in the next week or so, partly to see if SP2 has improved things and also because it looks like TM might now have support for my 3dconnexion spacemouse ... another thing I've been waiting for. If I do that I will report back.

 

It might be worth you asking on the Twinmotion forums, what experience people have had with M1 vs M1 max?

Edited by line-weight
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