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No Screen Plane in 2022


Bruce Kieffer

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I’m afraid you can’t. You will need to turn on screen plane to do this. 
 

It is my understanding that Vectorworks intend to address all these workflow issues in the next release. I believe this is why it is legacy for now while they find solutions to all of the various hiccoughs that deprecating it causes.

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2 hours ago, markdd said:

I’m afraid you can’t. You will need to turn on screen plane to do this. 
 

It is my understanding that Vectorworks intend to address all these workflow issues in the next release. I believe this is why it is legacy for now while they find solutions to all of the various hiccoughs that deprecating it causes.

Well, I'm glad I was never the first way to go when the lights went Green!

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5 hours ago, markdd said:

I’m afraid you can’t. You will need to turn on screen plane to do this. 
 

It is my understanding that Vectorworks intend to address all these workflow issues in the next release. I believe this is why it is legacy for now while they find solutions to all of the various hiccoughs that deprecating it causes.

OK, but it seems pretty simple to me. I cannot see any case where anyone would want a worksheet to display in 3D. Years ago, before push/pull, my thought was an object should be 2D until the user extrudes said object. Since push/pull I can see that would be a problem. I suggest adding a "Planer Object" checkbook to the OIP for all objects.

Edited by Bruce Kieffer
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3 hours ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

OK, but it seems pretty simple to me. I cannot see any case where anyone would want a worksheet to display in 3D.

 

 

Bruce, I cannot see any case where anyone would want a worksheet to display in a 3D Perspective 🙂

(In a way that the way to display counteracts the rest of a 3D View)

VW is a 2D/3D CAD Tool - not a Compositing Software where you overlay Titels and all sort of

more ore less 2D Stuff above a Video.

 

But if there is a need, like you have,

reactivate Screen Plane by 2D legacy Mode in File Settings for your Templates.

All Files already containing Objects aligned to screen plane, will automatically have screen plane available.

 

 

9 hours ago, markdd said:

It is my understanding that Vectorworks intend to address all these workflow issues in the next release. I believe this is why it is legacy for now while they find solutions to all of the various hiccoughs that deprecating it causes.

 

I think it is legacy and hidden but still available to not take these 2D Workflows away completely.

I am sure it will be available for further decades, like the old Stair Tool and such.

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I just learned this in another thread. The right most Pink button in the Options bar let's you set a Working Plane equal to the screen.

 

image.png.4f568a2f55e3c6177778327083e6e60f.png

 

You can then place a worksheet (or any 2D object) on that working plane to have it show as "2D".

 

It won't stay stuck to the screen while you change the view behind it as it worked with Screen Plane Objects, but it is at least a way to get a plane you can put notes and worksheets on once you pick the view you want.

 

But the real push is to add those objects into viewport annotations (that still act like Screen Plane) rather than on Design Layers.

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8 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

I just learned this in another thread. The right most Pink button in the Options bar let's you set a Working Plane equal to the screen.

 

image.png.4f568a2f55e3c6177778327083e6e60f.png

 

You can then place a worksheet (or any 2D object) on that working plane to have it show as "2D".

 

It won't stay stuck to the screen while you change the view behind it as it worked with Screen Plane Objects, but it is at least a way to get a plane you can put notes and worksheets on once you pick the view you want.

 

But the real push is to add those objects into viewport annotations (that still act like Screen Plane) rather than on Design Layers.

 

@Pat Stanford Pat, This was shown to me by the Steve Johnson. It is basically a temporary workaround. Every time you change a view you need to select the 2D object (my worksheet), click the select working plane button in the Options bar, go to the OIP and change the object's plane to working plane. Don't get me wrong, I have always felt that screen plane should be eliminated. I think this step in the Vectorworks development is a good one.

 

After speaking with the support team, you are correct. The push is to use design layers for design and viewports for annotations. My problem is I need to work on my worksheet while looking at my project so I can confirm that the worksheet displays the object quantities and sizes correctly. It's my cut list worksheet for woodworking projects (yes, I have that working great now, and Vectorworks added a Median function to 2022 that makes it even simpler). I started working on a split screen setup to show the worksheet on one pane and the design on another. That works, but I have a few other ideas to test. I will get back to this conversation after I find a setup that works without reverting to legacy 2D screen plane. Things move slowly around here since I have retired!

Edited by Bruce Kieffer
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2 hours ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

My problem is I need to work on my worksheet while looking at my project so I can confirm that the worksheet displays the object quantities and sizes correctly.

 

In that case, do you actually need the Worksheet to be "Placed on Drawing"?

 

If you're actively working on the worksheet while modeling, I'd suggest deleting the Worksheet Data object, and instead going to the Resource Manager, right clicking the Worksheet thumbnail, and choosing Open. Then you'll have the worksheet editor without it being an object in the drawing. You can also click the little "+" icon to minimize this window whenever it's in the way, but allowing it to stay accessible.

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On 9/22/2021 at 8:43 AM, Bruce Kieffer said:

My problem is I need to work on my worksheet while looking at my project so I can confirm that the worksheet displays the object quantities and sizes correctly.

You could setup a Multiple Viewplanes with one in Top/Plan for the worksheet and another in a 3d view for your modelling.

Edited by bcd
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Apart from @Andy Broomell’s excellent idea, respectfully, these suggestions are all workarounds to functionality that existed and worked extremely well before screen plane was deprecated. 
 

I hope that before screen plane is deprecated completely, that elegant solutions are found by the engineers to all the various workflows that have been adopted by users of all levels of knowledge and experience.

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31 minutes ago, markdd said:

I hope that before screen plane is deprecated completely, that elegant solutions are found by the engineers to all the various workflows that have been adopted by users of all levels of knowledge and experience.

 

In the Beta thread for this task there was a lot of conversation about this exact topic - that there are number of things that aren't yet addressed (and a few of which WERE altered before the public release, thankfully). We all tend to agree that Screen Plane needed to change or go away, and that this is a step in the right direction but still needs some additional attention moving forward.

 

Some remaining workflows that are missing include

-the ability to have 2D objects that appear in Top/Plan but which instantly disappear in 3D views (not everyone was aware this was possible, but those that utilized it really relied on it).

-the ability to easily draw objects in orthographic views when Clip Cube is on without having to manually set working planes all the time (as Screen Plane objects weren't clipped out by Clip Cube but 3D Plane objects are). Screen plane was "always in front" which was useful.

-and lastly and most important to me personally, is the deprecation of Cropped Perspective view (this should be solved by fixing the RW Camera tool's useless blue corner crop marks and making cameras cropped by default like any other respectable software). Cinema 4D handles this perfectly - a shaded rectangular border which you can set the opacity of under preferences.

Edited by Andy Broomell
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The only reason that I miss the Screen Plane is due to how Vectorworks thinks about hybrid symbols.  When creating a symbol, VW automatically separates 3D objects from planar objects into their respective symbol components, but when editing the symbol later, it uses the screen plane to separate objects back to the 2D component.  As an example, let's say that I am given a drawing with a bunch of 3D symbols in it and I want to make them into hybrids.  In earlier versions of VW, I might edit the 3D component of a symbol and trace it with 2D rectangles, circles, or polylines.  When I was done, I could select those shapes and set them to the screen plane in the OIP.  Upon exiting the symbol, VW would recognize those screen plane objects and convert the symbol into a 2D/3D hybrid.  This does not happen in VW2022, the only plane you have access to in the OIP is the Layer Definition.

 

I mean, in this case you could just enable the 2D Legacy Features, move the objects, then disable the 2D Legacy Features but I think it would be better if, when editing symbols, you had a plane option of "2D Component" or something so that you could send flat planar objects to the 2D component while editing the 3D component.

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4 minutes ago, Jesse Cogswell said:

The only reason that I miss the Screen Plane is due to how Vectorworks thinks about hybrid symbols.  When creating a symbol, VW automatically separates 3D objects from planar objects into their respective symbol components, but when editing the symbol later, it uses the screen plane to separate objects back to the 2D component.  As an example, let's say that I am given a drawing with a bunch of 3D symbols in it and I want to make them into hybrids.  In earlier versions of VW, I might edit the 3D component of a symbol and trace it with 2D rectangles, circles, or polylines.  When I was done, I could select those shapes and set them to the screen plane in the OIP.  Upon exiting the symbol, VW would recognize those screen plane objects and convert the symbol into a 2D/3D hybrid.  This does not happen in VW2022, the only plane you have access to in the OIP is the Layer Definition.

 

I mean, in this case you could just enable the 2D Legacy Features, move the objects, then disable the 2D Legacy Features but I think it would be better if, when editing symbols, you had a plane option of "2D Component" or something so that you could send flat planar objects to the 2D component while editing the 3D component.

 

 

I think the idea is you're supposed to go to the 2D Component and set the "Show Other" option to 3D and then trace. (Or you could also trace in the 3D component like before, but then cut the objects, switch to 2D component, and Paste in Place.)

 

246915293_ScreenShot2021-09-22at10_10_03AM.thumb.png.200dbec82c752e14835e233d29023230.png

 

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While the "Show Other: 3D" does work, one of the tricks I use to quickly build 2D components is to use the Extract Face tool set to Create Planar Object.  Then, I can orbit around the model and select faces I want, then just toggle them to the screen plane when I'm done.  I do have to manually trace faces that wouldn't be flat to the screen plane, but even that is easy to do in a 3D view with the working plane set to the ground.

 

And my experience with trying to cut and paste in place from one component to the other does not always correctly place things, at least with extracted faces.

 

It's a personal workflow choice for me, but it currently necessitates using the screen plane.  I would love to see an option to set planar objects in a 3D component to the 2D component (like screen plane does) before the screen plane is entirely deprecated.

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2 hours ago, Andy Broomell said:

 

In that case, do you actually need the Worksheet to be "Placed on Drawing"?

 

If you're actively working on the worksheet while modeling, I'd suggest deleting the Worksheet Data object, and instead going to the Resource Manager, right clicking the Worksheet thumbnail, and choosing Open. Then you'll have the worksheet editor without it being an object in the drawing. You can also click the little "+" icon to minimize this window whenever it's in the way, but allowing it to stay accessible.

Well, that is a nice solution, and it auto opens and closes after you click the minimize icon.

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On 9/18/2021 at 4:46 AM, Bruce Kieffer said:

OK, but it seems pretty simple to me. I cannot see any case where anyone would want a worksheet to display in 3D. Years ago, before push/pull, my thought was an object should be 2D until the user extrudes said object. Since push/pull I can see that would be a problem. I suggest adding a "Planer Object" checkbook to the OIP for all objects.

@Bruce KiefferI definitely (occasionally) put worksheets on 3d views like sectionals

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38 minutes ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

Sure, and that is what I did too, but it doesn't work now.

Ok. But this is what I'm seein in 2021…

A standard Right View, that worksheet, pasted into the 3d view and staged as appropriate is still editable via double click, which then updates the actual hanging schedule below. 

Does that address your concern?

 

worksheet in section.pdf worksheet in section silght rotation.pdf

Edited by mjm
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