VW2022 Redshift

[bcd]

Redshift has arrived in VW2022 = faster better renderings

The coffee machine is going to be lonely.

Not the full power of node based material (texture) creation and lighting control but even in this implementation if you have compatable hardware you'll enjoy a game chaging improvement in rendering power.

[fabrica]

any benchmarks to see the speed difference from 2021 to 2022? 

[Kazemester]

Redshift render instantly disappears after completion on design layers.(I guess it's a bug?!) On sheet layers the render works fine.

And the results are pretty good!

By the way...can we ask for render passes finally as Redshift render engine is present?

 

Edit: the redshift render on 300dpi took around 40mins, the final quality interior renderworks took aroun 5mins though.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Kazemester

[Dave Donley]

21 minutes ago, fabrica said:

any benchmarks to see the speed difference from 2021 to 2022? 

 

In our testing some files render several times faster when compared to the same quality rendering.  Redshift is a different render engine, the renderings from it look different.  Not every file renders faster, for example simple models that don't use raytracing effects like blurry reflections, soft shadows, depth of field, fine details in global illumination, or anti-aliasing do not show significant speed improvement.  Where Redshift pays is for high quality renderings that use these effects.  In the test models we used, I noticed one that was a high quality rendering using non-Redshift, the blurriness quality was set to Medium, likely because blurry reflections are "expensive" with the non-Redshift rendering mode.  You can set the quality setting to High with Redshift and it doesn't slow it down.  As with all things, once you have a higher budget for quality versus speed you will use that budget up to get more quality.  IMO the Redshift renderings have a per-pixel crispness and higher detail, whereas non-Redshift can have some areas that show the tradeoffs made in speed/quality.

 

Here is a panorama rendered at 8k res and High quality setting:

https://beta.vcs.vectorworks.net/links/11ec149795a09d6a86e8122ca254d0a9/

 

[Dave Donley]

@Kazemester I have not seen that, unless you have Unified View turned off and the design layer rendering is being overwritten by a later design layer?

 

Check if Denoising is on in your settings, de-noising takes 2x the non-denoising amount of render time.  And it most of the time can be turned off.  One useful way to use denoising would be Sampling quality set to Low and Denoising on, to clean things up.  With High the Denoising doesn't improve things much for the 2x render time.

 

"By the way...can we ask for render passes finally as Redshift render engine is present?"

Sure, what passes would be useful to you?

 

[fabrica]

@Kazemester ouch ! 40mins...

[Kazemester]

1 minute ago, Dave Donley said:

@Kazemester I have not seen that, unless you have Unified View turned off and the design layer rendering is being overwritten by a later design layer?

 

Check if Denoising is on in your settings, de-noising takes 2x the non-denoising amount of render time.  And it most of the time can be turned off.  One useful way to use denoising would be Sampling quality set to Low and Denoising on, to clean things up.  With High the Denoising doesn't improve things much for the 2x render time.

 

 

Thanks for the tip...render time doesn't really matter, the disappearing render is much more frustrating. I had de-noising on, but had Unified VIew turned on as well.

I render in sheet layers anyways so it was just a quick comment. 

[EAlexander]

Here's some early screen grab testing right out of the box.  Not scientific at all and no materials or lighting.

 

1. Preset: Redshift Interior Fast - 5 seconds

 

2. Preset: Redshift Interior Final - 30 seconds (and I'd say 15 seconds of that was denoising.

 

I have to dig deeper, but at first glance - SHADED (formerly OpenGL) gives me a lot of lines and hatch artifacts (there is NOT overlapping geo), but as I zoom in more, it clears up.  Haven't tried this yet in a Viewport, but I hope I can sort this as screen grabs of wide views to send to my designers is my all day every day 🙂

 

More testing to come.  I usually run a few versions behind (still producing in 2020), but wanted to play with redshift.  Machine specs below: TL|DR: (2) 1080ti on Win 10.

[EAlexander]

Sadly, any file pre 2020 that I try to open gives instacrash.  See y'all in a few service packs.

 

EDIT: even weirder - I open a file in 2020.  I copy all the Geo to the clipboard - move over to 2022 and paste.....I get a 2d line representation of my model (like I ran convert copy to lines and no 3d.  ☠️

Edited September 15, 2021 by EAlexander

[Hugues]

19 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

Sadly, any file pre 2020 that I try to open gives instacrash.  See y'all in a few service packs.

 

EDIT: even weirder - I open a file in 2020.  I copy all the Geo to the clipboard - move over to 2022 and paste.....I get a 2d line representation of my model (like I ran convert copy to lines and no 3d.  ☠️

Would you mind sharing the files with us? We want to investigate the issue.

[EAlexander]

@HuguesThanks - here you go - attached.  This is just solid modeling - no PIOs or anything but extruded geometry.

 

Crashes 2022 before I even get it fully opened.  Can't copy and paste it from 2020 to 2022 as 3d.

 

EDIT: just noticed the file name has CORONA in it - this is referencing the render engine in Cinema 4d, not the virus 🙂 

 

11_10_corona_buildv01.vwx.zip

Edited September 15, 2021 by EAlexander

[Hugues]

10 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

@HuguesThanks - here you go - attached.  This is just solid modeling - no PIOs or anything but extruded geometry.

 

Crashes 2022 before I even get it fully opened.  Can't copy and paste it from 2020 to 2022 as 3d.

 

EDIT: just noticed the file name has CORONA in it - this is referencing the render engine in Cinema 4d, not the virus 🙂 

 

11_10_corona_buildv01.vwx.zip

Thanks @EAlexander

What operating system are you running? Could you please provide the specs of your machine?

[EAlexander]

@Hugues Is this enough info? Attached.

[Hugues]

@EAlexander Thanks. That is helpful.
Could you also provide the graphics card info? 

[zoomer]

20H2 too.

 

Isn't 21H2 available for some time already ?

I always thought it is just on my machine, that Windows does not

like my AMD CPU/GPU combo or such things,

so not offering 21H2 update for me only (?)

[EAlexander]

2 minutes ago, zoomer said:

20H2 too.

 

Isn't 21H2 available for some time already ?

I always thought it is just on my machine, that Windows does not

like my AMD CPU/GPU combo or such things,

so not offering 21H2 update for me only (?)

I don't update unless I absolutely have to....

[EAlexander]

@Hugues  Here is the GPU info - there are two cards, identical and two monitors.

Edited September 15, 2021 by EAlexander

[Andy Broomell]

49 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

EDIT: even weirder - I open a file in 2020.  I copy all the Geo to the clipboard - move over to 2022 and paste.....I get a 2d line representation of my model (like I ran convert copy to lines and no 3d.  ☠️

 

I don't think I've ever been able to copy and paste between versions. Isn't this typical behavior?

[zoomer]

I am not tempted to go Windows 11.

I lost my whole (first) Windows installation, after a month of optimizing

for my needs, with the first Windows Upgrade, at that time.

(Linux Windows Dual Boot Setup on 2 SSDs)

 

But after that it worked and I got more confident about Windows Upgrades.

So I always want the newest and shiniest like on macOS ....

[EAlexander]

3 minutes ago, Andy Broomell said:

 

I don't think I've ever been able to copy and paste between versions. Isn't this typical behavior?

I don't think I've ever tried before, but I don't know why it wouldn't work.........

 

I tried opening the file in 2020 and saving, then opening that new file in 2022, but no joy.

Edited September 15, 2021 by EAlexander

[Kazemester]

2 hours ago, Dave Donley said:

"By the way...can we ask for render passes finally as Redshift render engine is present?"

Sure, what passes would be useful to you?

 

I would love to render out all of them, but at least zdepth, object id, material id, reflection, refraction, shadow, specular...🥺

[Mark Aceto]

On 9/15/2021 at 10:28 AM, EAlexander said:

SHADED (formerly OpenGL) gives me a lot of lines and hatch artifacts (there is NOT overlapping geo), but as I zoom in more, it clears up.

 

Is the creasing angle set to 0 ? That usually takes care of that for me.

[Markvl]

Would there be a reason why I don't see Redshift as a style option when I go to update a viewport?

[Andy Broomell]

4 minutes ago, Markvl said:

Would there be a reason why I don't see Redshift as a style option when I go to update a viewport?

Are you looking under the Renderworks Styles submenu?

[Markvl]

Found it.  Had to import it.