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Additional Roof Options


Kevin K

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Just another request regarding roof options.

As we all know, in the real world, all roofs need flashing where hips and valleys occur.

It would really be a step up, if that could be implemented within the roof settings options.

 

In the rendered image below, you will note (if you look closely) that I have included the hip, ridge and valley flashings.

You may need to click on the image to view it with a better resolution,

As an aside, the 3d standing seams on the roof, as well as the 3d vertical batts on the siding, were quickly created using surface array, btw.

 

It is sort of a pain to create the various metal flashing items, but in my view, it does add a bit of realism to renderings, etc.

Thoughts?

 

 

577223095_FRONTPERSPECTIVE.thumb.png.d6bdad6a619f9fa55eae7de7f0efe9ab.png

 

 

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Hi @line-weight thanks for posting your drawings. So you have Roof Face objects with components for the main flat areas of roof then a series of self-modelled 3D objects for the flashings planted on the sides? This is why I think we should have the 'Add 3D Objects to...' functionality we have for Slabs for Roof objects too: then those add-ons could be properly made part of the roof + the whole assembly become a single monolithic object.

 

Also how does it all look in Top/Plan? Do you convert the flashings into auto-hybrids to give them solidity? Or as per previous conversations you don't use Top/Plan?

 

I recently started using the AF Design Baseboard plug-in for skirtings/architraves/etc + speeds things up compared to using Extrude Along Path + automatically creates a hybrid object so wish I'd got it earlier. With not much tweaking its use could be expanded to doing things like flashings, etc as well... But you'd still need to manually edit them if the roof changed. But easier to edit a baseboard object than an EAP

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21 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Hi @line-weight thanks for posting your drawings. So you have Roof Face objects with components for the main flat areas of roof then a series of self-modelled 3D objects for the flashings planted on the sides? This is why I think we should have the 'Add 3D Objects to...' functionality we have for Slabs for Roof objects too: then those add-ons could be properly made part of the roof + the whole assembly become a single monolithic object.

 

Also how does it all look in Top/Plan? Do you convert the flashings into auto-hybrids to give them solidity? Or as per previous conversations you don't use Top/Plan?

 

I recently started using the AF Design Baseboard plug-in for skirtings/architraves/etc + speeds things up compared to using Extrude Along Path + automatically creates a hybrid object so wish I'd got it earlier. With not much tweaking its use could be expanded to doing things like flashings, etc as well... But you'd still need to manually edit them if the roof changed. But easier to edit a baseboard object than an EAP

 

Yeah, I use a section or top view for the roof plan. Looks something like this for this bit of overlapping roof planes

 

645444900_Screenshot2021-08-10at09_05_37.jpg.fd2fadbf3d32fa17d7f0fefcebed77ed.jpg

 

But it gives me a bunch of lines that shouldn't be there - eg the red circled ones - where the roof face meets the flashing. I've not yet worked out how I'll deal with that in this drawing - it's possible I might convert the roof faces to dumb solids when I'm happy everything is correct, and then do some solid additions.

 

By the way, one of the reasons I rejected the hybrid-with-top/plan workflow is that I kept having the same sort of problem - a seam where a hybrid object joined something else.

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12 minutes ago, line-weight said:

 

Yeah, I use a section or top view for the roof plan. Looks something like this for this bit of overlapping roof planes

 

645444900_Screenshot2021-08-10at09_05_37.jpg.fd2fadbf3d32fa17d7f0fefcebed77ed.jpg

 

But it gives me a bunch of lines that shouldn't be there - eg the red circled ones - where the roof face meets the flashing. I've not yet worked out how I'll deal with that in this drawing - it's possible I might convert the roof faces to dumb solids when I'm happy everything is correct, and then do some solid additions.

 

By the way, one of the reasons I rejected the hybrid-with-top/plan workflow is that I kept having the same sort of problem - a seam where a hybrid object joined something else.

 

For this roof I created a hybrid symbol for the roof panels then arranged them side by side in the model as if I was installing them in real life. Then the flashings are EAPs that I turned into auto-hybrids

105571964_Screenshot2021-08-10at09_23_24.thumb.png.993e7c35ce7b537ec65e428348f9ce9e.png603893004_Screenshot2021-08-10at09_26_09.thumb.png.0a8ac9cc96e765dd255ef883badd99a9.png

757612453_Screenshot2021-08-10at09_17_55.png.26b8ec711c14ca0b0fe6ea25f7dd2bc5.png1734330270_Screenshot2021-08-10at09_17_39.thumb.png.a7b857ddd0b698d18776d79b988e9d4c.png

518398817_Screenshot2021-08-10at09_17_46.thumb.png.229066fe1e985f506d013907c0259b91.png

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1 minute ago, line-weight said:

Nicely done! The principle of modelling things as they would be built/assembled is definitely a good one.

In that example you don't get the 'seam line' problem because the panels are not a continuous material with the flashings.

But if you used Slabs instead of roof faces you could use the Add 3D Object command then you wouldn't have the seam. Use Slab Drainage to apply the falls.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Thanks - that looks pretty handy and a potential escape from the dreaded extrude-along-path which I hate!

 

Does it allow you to contain multiple objects (ie with different classes) within the profile symbol?

 

No I don't think so. I just tried with a profile consisting of two separate polys but they combined into a single object when extruded. And the class the profile is in is not respected in the extrude (this is the same with EAPs). It's quite clunky + unsophisticated really but it does speed things up a bit for me. I have to manually make sure skirtings + architraves are put into their own classes when I create them but then I can report on Baseboard objects to get quantities. And the skirtings are auto hybrids so look correct in Top/Plan. 

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13 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

No I don't think so. I just tried with a profile consisting of two separate polys but they combined into a single object when extruded. And the class the profile is in is not respected in the extrude (this is the same with EAPs). It's quite clunky + unsophisticated really but it does speed things up a bit for me. I have to manually make sure skirtings + architraves are put into their own classes when I create them but then I can report on Baseboard objects to get quantities. And the skirtings are auto hybrids so look correct in Top/Plan. 

That's a shame ... alternatively is it possible to copy and paste-in-place a path, between one object and another? Because then you could have a bunch of profiles all extruded relative to the same path, and if you wanted to change the path you could do so in one of them and then just copy to the others.

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7 hours ago, line-weight said:

That's a shame ... alternatively is it possible to copy and paste-in-place a path, between one object and another? Because then you could have a bunch of profiles all extruded relative to the same path, and if you wanted to change the path you could do so in one of them and then just copy to the others.

I'm not 100% sure I follow what you mean but yes you can replace the object's path in the path edit mode, in the same way you can with EAPs. It is basically the same as EAP just quicker because fewer clicks plus it automatically generates an auto-hybrid for Top/Plan view plus you can use reshape tool on the object in the drawing rather than having to edit the path. I have various timber moulding profiles saved as blue group symbols in favourites + I just select which one I want the tool to use. But you have to type in the name of the symbol (or copy paste the text) in the tool prefs hence earlier description of it being a little clunky. Also the auto-hybrid doesn't apply if you draw the trim in 3D e.g. when you do architrave around a door. It only applies when you draw skirting board in Top/Plan. So architraves I convert to auto-hybrids manually but that's only 2 clicks.

 

The EAP command could be improved if there was the option to have the object created automatically become an auto-hyrid, allow reshaping the EAP in the drawing + be able to set the insertion point of the profile relative to the path in the symbol rather than the profile by default be centred on the path + need moving

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4 hours ago, MarcelP102 said:

Would https://fitplot.it/vwplugins/mouldings.html be a better plugin to use for this work? Since it comes with a selectable library of profiles wich you can extend with your own profiles. Did anyone tried both plugins?

 

This looks pretty handy - not just for architraves etc but also for repeated-element wall coverings etc. I wonder if that could be used for things like tiled or slated roofs (even if it didn't give a fully accurate representation it might give something that produces better results in sections etc)

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4 hours ago, MarcelP102 said:

Would https://fitplot.it/vwplugins/mouldings.html be a better plugin to use for this work? Since it comes with a selectable library of profiles wich you can extend with your own profiles. Did anyone tried both plugins?

I use AF designs gutter, baseboard and downspouts plugins all the time -  very good. I use the baseboard one for soffits and fascia's also, as they can be put into a class of there own. Mouldings plugin is great for wall panelling and the like. 

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On 8/9/2021 at 3:56 PM, MarcelP102 said:

Yes exactly, something like the roof fascia function like Revit has would be nice: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2018/ENU/Revit-Model/files/GUID-AC61490D-F98E-481F-8779-FC14AF912E95-htm.html

 

It automatically detects roof edges and moves when the roof sketch changes.

It would be great to have more options for fascia in the Roof, specially in the Roof faces, but the roofs have been needing an update for ages now, all the BIM tools have them, I think that's why the marketshare of Vectorworks for architects is shrinking, is getting harder and harder to find young architects/drafters do not know Vectorworks, the jsut know Revit or Archicad...

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