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SITE FILE COLLABORATION WITH GEOREFERENCING


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Hi

 

My question is in line with the topics discussed in the (WEBINAR) ENHANCE SITE FILE COLLABORATION WITH GEOREFERENCING.
For example: as a landscape architect you want to make your design in your own template. 

You receive a dwg from the surveyor. It is geolocated. The template has the same CRS as the dwg. When importing this as a Reference into your file all goes well.

Then you get a vwx file from the architect. (this file contains several layers with different scale etc and was not geolocated by the architect) You geolocate this file - same CRS as above. check it by placing a geo-image. All the layers get checked as 'Georeferenced'. You import this as a Reference into your template.

Then just before you start designing you want to use the Geolocate Rotate tool so the architecture is back to '90°' to make drawing easier. The DWG rotates correctly - the vwx from the architect disappears into space...

 

Is there something wrong with this workflow? Or could it there be something in the vwx file that messes up the geolocation of the reference?

 

Thanks!

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Interesting question.

 

I would have thought that you "georeference" all surveyors data Layers,

so that they are located around File Origin.

But locate and draw your own and architectural imports without any

georefence, just positioned around File Origin

(typical at the origin of Building Grid, where axis 1/axis A cross)

amd parallel to the Building Grid/Wall orientation ...

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@zoomer yes, I treat an Architect’s building like a piece of site furnishing… no georeferencing in the building file.  I reference the building into my site plan and position it accordingly.  Same thing in Revit, especially on multi building campus projects.  With the base unit differences between building and site conventions and how most architects seem to like orientating their buildings for drawing production rather than real world positioning, keeping georeferencing limited to a master site model seems to be the safest and quickest way to work.  When you have projects with duplicated buildings on a site, things could really get interesting when buildings are georeferenced 😉

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I am not sure if that is the recommended workflow.

But from my narrow architectural perspective,

I want just my building origin and as the drawing origin.

everything georeferenced environment, I want to oriented accordingly.

While keeping georeferencing kept, in rare cases of needs to export

for collaboration.

I can see potential problems this way, if the georeferenced center of

rotation may not meet the same buildings origin point.

 

But I am not very experienced very much with these workflows as I

most time don't need them. I just get annoyed if some of my delivered

imports don't match building position or rotation ....

Edited by zoomer
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@Carol ReznorHi, I will always set up my site model with the survey date in a blank file then exref that file to my working file. I can then move the viewport and rotate as needed so as not to upset the survey data and you don't clog up your working file with all the survey classes.

This way when you build your existing building from the survey data it all sits correctly on the site model. I do copy the 3D site model to the working file and any other lines i need but leave it as a separate referenced file.

HTH

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Thanks a bunch for all the helpful feedback!

 

If I understand correctly: say you do put the unreferenced architect file into your referenced survey. You would just  'Geolocate Rotate' - the survey so it corresponds with the building and its drawing orientation.

Which makes sense - instead of first getting everything 'real world' correct and then trying to rotate everything back to the drawing angle of the architect. Right?

And there is no way to rotate both the georeferenced site together with the building (as this is 'furniture') in one rotate action and keep the geolocation correct?

Thanks again!

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I think @jeff prince means that he treats the building as a stand-alone object that can be moved freely wherever you want within the site model, like any other object you'd place on the site model. This is the way I've done it too. I have a georeferenced ‘site’ file that includes all the surveys plus the site model. Then I have various separate building files where the individual buildings are drawn orthogonally + with the ground floor at Z=0. These are then ‘imported’ into the site file as referenced DLVPs + can be given whatever Z height is required + can be rotated in plan whichever way you want to fit the site. So the site model + survey geometry is fixed/locked but the buildings + any other objects placed on the site can be positioned whichever way you want. If it's an existing building you'd just rotate it manually to match the orientation shown on the survey file.

 

Initially for me my first building file was not georeferenced + the building was drawn at 0,0. But this meant that when I imported it into the georeferenced site file, where the Internal Origin was however many hundreds of miles from the User Origin, the DLVP was at first creation positioned at 0,0 i.e. a long way from the Internal Origin in the site model file. This meant I had to manually move it to where the site model was, which we then think resulted in rendering issues because the referenced geometry was now a great distance from the Internal Origin in the source file. So I went back to the source file + georeferenced this too + moved the building model to a geographical location that corresponded with its intended location in the site model file + this rectified the performance/graphical issues. And doing this with subsequent referenced DLVPs meant that the DLVPs came into the target file at the correct geographical location straight away + didn’t have to be moved.

 

I just wonder if this is common practise as I’ve never seen it mentioned before. Sorry I’ve gone slightly off-topic here but seemed an opportunity to hear what other people thought.

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14 hours ago, Carol Reznor said:

Thanks a bunch for all the helpful feedback!

 

If I understand correctly: say you do put the unreferenced architect file into your referenced survey. You would just  'Geolocate Rotate' - the survey so it corresponds with the building and its drawing orientation.

Which makes sense - instead of first getting everything 'real world' correct and then trying to rotate everything back to the drawing angle of the architect. Right?

And there is no way to rotate both the georeferenced site together with the building (as this is 'furniture') in one rotate action and keep the geolocation correct?

Thanks again!

 

No.  Architects who follow this should familiarize themselves with the works of Copernicus to understand the fundamental flaw with this approach🙂

Perhaps it heresy to say, but buildings should be rotated about the site, not the other way around.

 

Here's what I do:

1. create project file, reference survey in.  reference Civil in.  These are almost always located with respect to the real world position.

2. import architecture (not georeferenced or located with respect to the real world)

3. Move and/or rotate building into correct location on the site

4. Use "rotate plan" to orientate my site with referenced buildings to suit my document's purpose

5. Generate viewport to a sheet.

6. Repeat steps 4 & 5 as required.

 

I see no benefit, only huge downside risks, in rotating a site.  The computer will do all the heavy lifting for you, we aren't drawing on paper anymore 🙂

 

@Tom W.you are getting pretty good at interpreting what I mean 🙂

 

similar topic, same benefits...

 

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