Tom W. Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 I have a scene with Plants in that I want to show at night/dusk as well as during the day time: does this mean I need to create duplicates of the plants using duplicate versions of the image prop textures which have had the glow reflectivity reduced/removed? i.e. have day-time plants (with glow) on one layer + night-time versions of the same plants (with no glow) on another layer + switch between the two depending on whether it’s a day or night scene in the viewport? Or are there any other tricks? I saw a post saying to reduce the glow on all the textures to 40% then you can use the same image prop for both night + day... Just be interested to know what other people do before I head off into the unknown… I just wanted to do a viewport or two showing the outside lighting in my model turned on. Thanks Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Eric Gilbey, PLA Posted June 12, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted June 12, 2021 Tom, I have just turned off the glow when I needed both, but perhaps you find the image prop textures to be too dim this way? If the Heliodon is casting light on them, they should look more naturally lit this way, but the ones in the shadow would be dimmer than you prefer perhaps? 1 Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 @Tom W. an easy way to address this is to use different classes for unique circumstances. I put hand drawn image props on one class, photographic on a separate class so I can quickly switch between them. Same logic would work for Day/Night pretty easily if you are unable to get the look you want with the glow setting. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 Thank you @Eric Gilbey, PLA + @jeff prince for the good advice. I went through all the image prop textures + turned off the glow + you’re right Eric, the plants look just as good if not better in day-time! Thanks for the heads-up. Just need to work on my night time rendering now… 🙂 Interesting to know Jeff that having different plant objects on different classes for different contexts is common practise. Could you share some images of the kind of thing you’re talking about? You mean one set of plants for an artistic representation of the scene + another for photorealistic? Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 23 minutes ago, Tom W. said: Interesting to know Jeff that having different plant objects on different classes for different contexts is common practise. Could you share some images of the kind of thing you’re talking about? You mean one set of plants for an artistic representation of the scene + another for photorealistic? I was referring to putting different representations of a single plant object on different classes. A single plant object can contain a ton of graphic information both 2D and 3D. I do not see the benefit of having the same plant duplicated. The attached image is a single plant with many different display characteristics, including an actual 3D model in addition to two different image props. There are 15 viewports pointing at the same plant object using viewport overrides to show the desired graphics/model. Makes sense? 4 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 Sorry Jeff I'd seen this graphic before but hadn't fully understood what you'd done. So in the 3D Component of the symbol you basically superimpose multiple image props/3D models on top of each other + separate them by class, only ever displaying one at a time? That's very cool. So as you say, very very easy to have a glow version + non-glow version of the same image prop within the same symbol, + just have a 'glow' class + a 'non-glow' class to choose which version is displayed across the whole file. I like this a lot. So in the same way you could, if it were a tree for example, have winter/autumn/spring versions all within the same symbol + again switch between seasons across the whole file by changing classes? Love it. Thank you for explaining 3 Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 @Tom W. Yes, you get it! It's a wonderful capability of the plant objects. Seasons, maturities at different ages, sketchy vs photographic vs modeled, etc. Lots of potential with a disciplined application of classes. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted June 15, 2021 Author Share Posted June 15, 2021 I can also see instances where this would be useful for 'normal' hybrid symbols where you'd want to have the option of displaying two different representations of the same object in Top/Plan. I have a series of hybrid symbols for electrical items that in 3D look like the actual objects (socket outlets, light switches, light fittings, etc) but in Top/Plan are represented by electrical symbols for producing wiring schematics. With your technique I could also include conventional hidden line representations of the objects in the 2D Top component to allow me to display the objects normally for some drawings + as schematic symbols for layout drawings. Cool. 1 Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 @Tom W. The workflow was actually discouraged at one point in some VWX training. Reminds me of a site modeling training on Vectorworks University where they say you should never have more than one site model in a file 😉 Anyhow, symbols with complex classing schemes are pretty standard method for any CAD program. When an Object can contain a symbol, there are lots of possibilities for exploiting the behavior and utility of the object. 3 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 Interestingly I just happened across a very good series of videos by @Stephan Moenninghoff where in one of them he addresses this exact issue of rendering plants in day + night scenes. He recommended creating 'day' versions of Image Props with 75% Glow + 'night' versions with no glow + like you said @jeff prince separating them by class within the same symbol 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 On 6/12/2021 at 10:53 PM, Eric Gilbey, PLA said: Tom, I have just turned off the glow when I needed both, but perhaps you find the image prop textures to be too dim this way? If the Heliodon is casting light on them, they should look more naturally lit this way, but the ones in the shadow would be dimmer than you prefer perhaps? Hi @Eric Gilbey, PLA the problem I've found with turning off the Glow completely is that because the Image Props have crossed planes you often find you get one plane casting a shadow on the other. See the trees in the background in this image. They have a dark stripe running up the middle caused by the crossed planes: There doesn't seem to be a way to disable Crossed Planes for Plant Image Props: if you edit the image prop it has no effect on the plant instance; if you Group the image prop whilst you edit it then the instance will display without crossed planes but it will lose its PIO scalability in the process i.e. it will display at the Image Prop size + can't be scaled via the style/OIP. So I'm wondering: given you have said you work with plants with no glow, does that mean you have found a way to disable crossed planes? In the meantime, being stuck with two planes whether I like it or not I've been experimenting with different Glow levels: No Glow = crossed planes visible so no good: 75% Glow = too bright: 30% Glow = crossed planes not apparent so good: Likewise in the daytime: No Glow = crossed planes visible so no good: 30% Glow = cross planes not apparent but too dark so no good either (I don't really understand why this one is so dark...): 75% Glow = cross planes not apparent + good brightness: So as it stands, I'm going to include a 30% Glow Image Prop in my Plants for night time renders + a 75% Glow Image Prop for day time. 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Eric Gilbey, PLA Posted October 11, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted October 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, Tom W. said: Hi @Eric Gilbey, PLA the problem I've found with turning off the Glow completely is that because the Image Props have crossed planes you often find you get one plane casting a shadow on the other. See the trees in the background in this image. They have a dark stripe running up the middle caused by the crossed planes: There doesn't seem to be a way to disable Crossed Planes for Plant Image Props: if you edit the image prop it has no effect on the plant instance; if you Group the image prop whilst you edit it then the instance will display without crossed planes but it will lose its PIO scalability in the process i.e. it will display at the Image Prop size + can't be scaled via the style/OIP. So I'm wondering: given you have said you work with plants with no glow, does that mean you have found a way to disable crossed planes? Hi @Tom W. There is a way to disable the cross planed image prop...if you right click on the plant in your resource manager, or in the plan, you have options to edit the plant style...choose the "Edit 3D Component". This will give you the image prop, which you can select. Once selected, the OIP will display the options, and it is here where you can disable the "crossed plane" option. See the image attached here. Hope this helps...let me know if otherwise. Best regards, Eric Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 Thanks Eric but no this is what I'm saying, it doesn't work. You can disable the crossed planes inside the symbol but then back in the drawing - in the symbol instance - nothing has changed. In another thread someone very cleverly discovered that if you Group the image prop when you edit it then it WILL have an effect in the drawing, but then it seems (because the image prop is grouped) that you lose the ability to scale it. So the plant displays at the size of the original image prop not the size you give it in the OIP. Or am I missing something? Thanks for looking into it 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Eric Gilbey, PLA Posted October 11, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted October 11, 2021 @Tom W. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I did not see the prior comment until you called me out for this, so I appreciate your follow-up. I will bring this to our development team's attention to see about fixing this issue. 3 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 Cool thank you Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 On 10/11/2021 at 10:10 PM, Eric Gilbey, PLA said: @Tom W. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I did not see the prior comment until you called me out for this, so I appreciate your follow-up. I will bring this to our development team's attention to see about fixing this issue. Is there any update on this @Eric Gilbey, PLA? Thanks Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Eric Gilbey, PLA Posted May 2, 2023 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted May 2, 2023 Hi Tom. I cannot say there is a change in this as of yet, other than the fact we have new 3D content with Laubwerk plant representations. I will also tag @Katarina Ollikainen and @Scott Lebsackin this post as they are both involved with the styled objects' development and can speak to the ability to generate day/night appropriate image propped plant styles. Stay tuned... Eric Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Eric Gilbey, PLA said: Hi Tom. I cannot say there is a change in this as of yet, other than the fact we have new 3D content with Laubwerk plant representations. I will also tag @Katarina Ollikainen and @Scott Lebsackin this post as they are both involved with the styled objects' development and can speak to the ability to generate day/night appropriate image propped plant styles. Stay tuned... Eric Thanks for getting back so quick. It was more the specific issue with being unable to disable crossed planes for a Plant that I was interested in: you can turn off crossed planes inside the plant but it has no effect outside the plant. You even suggested doing this in an earlier post, not realising yourself it didn't work... 1 Quote Link to comment
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