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Night-time plants


Tom W.

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I have a scene with Plants in that I want to show at night/dusk as well as during the day time: does this mean I need to create duplicates of the plants using duplicate versions of the image prop textures which have had the glow reflectivity reduced/removed? i.e. have day-time plants (with glow) on one layer + night-time versions of the same plants (with no glow) on another layer + switch between the two depending on whether it’s a day or night scene in the viewport? Or are there any other tricks? I saw a post saying to reduce the glow on all the textures to 40% then you can use the same image prop for both night + day... Just be interested to know what other people do before I head off into the unknown… 

 

I just wanted to do a viewport or two showing the outside lighting in my model turned on.

 

Thanks

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Tom, I have just turned off the glow when I needed both, but perhaps you find the image prop textures to be too dim this way? If the Heliodon is casting light on them, they should look more naturally lit this way, but the ones in the shadow would be dimmer than you prefer perhaps?

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Thank you @Eric Gilbey, PLA + @jeff prince for the good advice. I went through all the image prop textures + turned off the glow + you’re right Eric, the plants look just as good if not better in day-time! Thanks for the heads-up. Just need to work on my night time rendering now… 🙂

 

Interesting to know Jeff that having different plant objects on different classes for different contexts is common practise. Could you share some images of the kind of thing you’re talking about? You mean one set of plants for an artistic representation of the scene + another for photorealistic?

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23 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Interesting to know Jeff that having different plant objects on different classes for different contexts is common practise. Could you share some images of the kind of thing you’re talking about? You mean one set of plants for an artistic representation of the scene + another for photorealistic?

 

I was referring to putting different representations of a single plant object on different classes.  A single plant object can contain a ton of graphic information both 2D and 3D.  I do not see the benefit of having the same plant duplicated.  The attached image is a single plant with many different display characteristics, including an actual 3D model in addition to two different image props.  There are 15 viewports pointing at the same plant object using viewport overrides to show the desired graphics/model.  Makes sense?

 

1793749741_oneplant-manylookswithclasses.thumb.png.1ee23dc286251b0f475ebcbf6939ae98.png

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Sorry Jeff I'd seen this graphic before but hadn't fully understood what you'd done. So in the 3D Component of the symbol you basically superimpose multiple image props/3D models on top of each other + separate them by class, only ever displaying one at a time? That's very cool. So as you say, very very easy to have a glow version + non-glow version of the same image prop within the same symbol, + just have a 'glow' class + a 'non-glow' class to choose which version is displayed across the whole file. I like this a lot. So in the same way you could, if it were a tree for example, have winter/autumn/spring versions all within the same symbol + again switch between seasons across the whole file by changing classes? Love it. Thank you for explaining

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I can also see instances where this would be useful for 'normal' hybrid symbols where you'd want to have the option of displaying two different representations of the same object in Top/Plan. I have a series of hybrid symbols for electrical items that in 3D look like the actual objects (socket outlets, light switches, light fittings, etc) but in Top/Plan are represented by electrical symbols for producing wiring schematics. With your technique I could also include conventional hidden line representations of the objects in the 2D Top component to allow me to display the objects normally for some drawings + as schematic symbols for layout drawings. Cool. 

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@Tom W.  The workflow was actually discouraged at one point in some VWX training.  Reminds me of a site modeling training on Vectorworks University where they say you should never have more than one site model in a file 😉

 

Anyhow, symbols with complex classing schemes are pretty standard method for any CAD program.  When an Object can contain a symbol, there are lots of possibilities for exploiting the behavior and utility of the object.

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  • 3 months later...
On 6/12/2021 at 10:53 PM, Eric Gilbey, PLA said:

Tom, I have just turned off the glow when I needed both, but perhaps you find the image prop textures to be too dim this way? If the Heliodon is casting light on them, they should look more naturally lit this way, but the ones in the shadow would be dimmer than you prefer perhaps?

 

Hi @Eric Gilbey, PLA the problem I've found with turning off the Glow completely is that because the Image Props have crossed planes you often find you get one plane casting a shadow on the other. See the trees in the background in this image. They have a dark stripe running up the middle caused by the crossed planes:

249705557_Screenshot2021-10-11at19_24_35.thumb.png.b09dfbae97927dce4e6a3db9174c6b16.png

 

There doesn't seem to be a way to disable Crossed Planes for Plant Image Props: if you edit the image prop it has no effect on the plant instance; if you Group the image prop whilst you edit it then the instance will display without crossed planes but it will lose its PIO scalability in the process i.e. it will display at the Image Prop size + can't be scaled via the style/OIP.

 

So I'm wondering: given you have said you work with plants with no glow, does that mean you have found a way to disable crossed planes?

 

In the meantime, being stuck with two planes whether I like it or not I've been experimenting with different Glow levels:

 

No Glow = crossed planes visible so no good:

1903059832_Screenshot2021-10-11at20_04_56.thumb.png.69eb812760e5174b0d2c0b1ca660185d.png

 

75% Glow = too bright:

1574599341_Screenshot2021-10-11at20_03_26.thumb.png.1bb1c75433cf499c3553a3ebdc5fa55d.png

 

30% Glow = crossed planes not apparent so good:

2064484570_Screenshot2021-10-11at20_13_26.thumb.png.968604e483049ce8bd9f515aac8f54ed.png

 

Likewise in the daytime:

 

No Glow = crossed planes visible so no good:

1912781618_Screenshot2021-10-11at20_45_17.thumb.png.ff0402b3d7fdb17b82b61235bbd01b4d.png

 

30% Glow = cross planes not apparent but too dark so no good either (I don't really understand why this one is so dark...):

2022229853_Screenshot2021-10-11at20_47_23.thumb.png.33e599083fb30c8cd9439e16c090ed8a.png

 

75% Glow = cross planes not apparent + good brightness:

260035773_Screenshot2021-10-11at20_46_23.thumb.png.a19c2f665079c852da2e8dcb4af93795.png

 

So as it stands, I'm going to include a 30% Glow Image Prop in my Plants for night time renders + a 75% Glow Image Prop for day time.

 

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
11 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

Hi @Eric Gilbey, PLA the problem I've found with turning off the Glow completely is that because the Image Props have crossed planes you often find you get one plane casting a shadow on the other. See the trees in the background in this image. They have a dark stripe running up the middle caused by the crossed planes:

 

There doesn't seem to be a way to disable Crossed Planes for Plant Image Props: if you edit the image prop it has no effect on the plant instance; if you Group the image prop whilst you edit it then the instance will display without crossed planes but it will lose its PIO scalability in the process i.e. it will display at the Image Prop size + can't be scaled via the style/OIP.

 

So I'm wondering: given you have said you work with plants with no glow, does that mean you have found a way to disable crossed planes?

 

 

Hi @Tom W. There is a way to disable the cross planed image prop...if you right click on the plant in your resource manager, or in the plan, you have options to edit the plant style...choose the "Edit 3D Component". This will give you the image prop, which you can select. Once selected, the OIP will display the options, and it is here where you can disable the "crossed plane" option.

See the image attached here.

 

Hope this helps...let me know if otherwise.

 

Best regards,

Eric

Screen Shot 2021-10-11 at 4.37.57 PM.png

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Thanks Eric but no this is what I'm saying, it doesn't work. You can disable the crossed planes inside the symbol but then back in the drawing - in the symbol instance - nothing has changed. In another thread someone very cleverly discovered that if you Group the image prop when you edit it then it WILL have an effect in the drawing, but then it seems (because the image prop is grouped) that you lose the ability to scale it. So the plant displays at the size of the original image prop not the size you give it in the OIP. Or am I missing something? Thanks for looking into it

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