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whitecap

where to sell my copy of architect?

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does anyone have any ideas about where to advertise a single seat of vectorworks architect 9.5?

i have lots of training material as well and would like to recover some of my investment and do not know where to advertise it?

any thoughts greatly appreciated.

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I assume you are changing CAD platforms. If so, in the interest of improving our product, I'd like to know why and to what other platforms. If you'd prefer to email me directly on this topic, feel free to do so at randerson@nemetschek.net . As for selling the product, I'd recommend eBay.

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hello robert,

i found a copy of archicad at 40%off retail.

when i first got into this, my cad quest, the idea i had was to be able to create a 3d model that would generate working documents with the ease of cad editing. i spent a fair sum of money on training materials as well as actually spending time in vancouver bc with in media res for one on one tutoring. and many many hours.

in the course of that valuable tutoring i began to realize that the dream of working off of the model was just that. as well as the non hot linked elevations and sections. i was shown with great skill on their part how to create quality documents. but it became basically just 2d drafting. the model was an accessory not a centerpiece.

that takes the fun out of it for me. the model can be a fantastic tool for design, presentation and reviewing problematic areas. if nothing is linked you are stuck redrawing all your elevations and sections the time invested in an accurate model becomes moot. the roof tools [ which describe the most complicated and interesting part of a house ] alone are amazing and straight forward to use whereas vectorworks, for me anyway was an endless series of work arounds. then there is the ease of plotting/printing layout. the animation, built-in rendering, i could go on. in the end as with most things you usually get what you pay for.

in the end the time i am spending learning the program is much too valuable to invest in a program that will not do what i expect. it is different for everyone. it seems that each program has it's short and long suits. this is just a better choice for me.

i will miss the auto scroll, fantastic 2d tools and the valuable help katie in particular provided on this tech board.

i will part with my fully licensed copy and lots of traiining materials [tutrial cds from archoncad, in media res ] manuals and another book or two for $500. as you can see this is not a cheap decision. who ever takes this will save close to $700.

regards

jeff

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I will be interested to see how you do with ArchiCad. But (particularly if you are new to the platform) how are you sure you won't encounter limitations with ArchiCad? Are you already trained and have you converted your design / drawing process? If not, might it not be a little premature to get rid of VWA?

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well it's all new to me. so yes it might be premature to sell vw but i am already much more comfortable with archicad than iwas after 4+ steady months with vw. the reality from my desktop is that each system has "it's ways" that you must apply and bow to or you just won't get it done. the work around thing. there are less of them so far with archicad.

i am coming to this line of work from carpentry, so the modeling is intutive to me in the sense that their tools are designed to create objects that reflect the actual building process. i am in effect generating a model of the actual house which in turn generates the 2d documents. just works for me.

[get a demo and play with the roof tool. it will blow you away. ]

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Robert I couldn't help it like Chris and jump in. I'm an architect and have been using this program since MC7. I came from autocad (I refer to it as autosuc). I also purchased Archicad 7 around the time 9 came out because I was so fed up with the stability problems of this program. Based on current experience and the fact that others on the boards are experiencing the same, it appears the instability problem begining with 9 (8.5 was the last stable release, and the last from Diehlgraphsoft--coincidence?) has now migrated to plotting problems with 10+.

In the end I decided not to jump ship because I am an old dog and the thought of learning a new program loomed as a very tall mountain to climb. However this does not excuse some of the fundamental problems with this program. If you all want to play with the big boys, you have to produce rock solid code, not fiascos like 9.0. Contrary to company mantra, 10 has been only marginally better.

I realize one of the bigest hurdles you face is the countless combinations of hardware and software. Solution: Do what the big boys do and get the program ISV certified (I think that's the name)as Catia, Autodesk, Bentley and others have done. At least some of the hardware issues tech support faces would be minimized.

Regarding Archicad, and I have said this before, with version 7 they have begun incorporating some of the best features of Vectorworks. At some point, given the more powerful use of the 3D model at its core, they are going to dig into your market share significantly. (the cost of the program is a pittance compared to lost time diagnosing unstable software). People like myself who depend on the efficency of the software for a living, will climb that mountain because they can no longer afford the loses from instability. I disagree with Chris regarding use of Archicad. Everyone I know who uses it, does so exclusively (w/o autosuc) and report little to no problems with stability. Their plot utility is very appealing. You can dynamically link (like Adobe InDesign)files from Excel, word, image files, and even dxf and dwg in addition to the archicad files on the same sheet. It is also nice to see a wall section dynamically update as you change the plan (I'm really tired of re-cutting sections all the time). As I understand it, without viewports (a la autosuc) dynamic links are not possible in this program. This is an essentail component to the production of architectural drawings using CAD (no, masks and layer links don't cut it-watch your files size grow out of control).

While I'm at it, worksheets are a pitiful third cousin to excel: Difficult to use, problematic, no word wrap (try doing a spec on less than a D size sheet)and mouse intensive. This needs to be addressed.

I would hope these issues will be incorporated into 11 when and only when it is stable an ready. Take your time, and get it right. It will be more profitable (less overhead trying to fix a bad release).

-Jim

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i'm back...........didn't mean to start a firestorm here!

my short time with cad, albeit limited to vectorworks and archicad, tells me that every program has it's strengths and weakness'.

the archicad usergroup meetings i/ve been to suggest that the majority, like 90+%, do all their work in archicad. the 2d work can be accomplished in the msa detailer template. it's simpple or i couldn't do it. and it is reportedly, from users, better in ver 8. the price vs. power. will you pay? is really the bottom line.

many people on this discussion board complain to no end about the shortcomings of vw. it is a piss off to lose your time, no doubt.i will once again sing the praises of katie and matthew before her. there is no calculable value for their tireless efforts and it NOT their fault! you live with your choices, good or bad, sometimes, like in my case, you choose again.

anyone want an inexpensive seat of vw arch 9.5.2?

jeff out

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If you do sell the version of VW, you have to contact Customer SErvice to go thru the correct legal steps.

The license agreement has some information about most of hte stpes.

THe license agreement.txt is in the Release Notes folder of the VW folder.

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For what it is worth, I used Archicad version 5 several years ago and switched from Archicad to Vectorworks. For me, the lower price of Vectorworks was nice, but not the deciding factor.

The primary purpose of CAD for my office is to produce 2d construction drawings. I find Vectorworks gives us more freedom and is more efficient in creating 2d drawings. The ?Virtual Model? theory that you can construct a computer model and then essentially slice it up to produce quality construction drawings is a nice idea, but in practice it did not work for me. In my opinion, the quality of the 2d drawings was crude, and we were spending a great deal of time trying to construct detailed models.

I?d suggest a dedicated 3D modeling program for models and a separate CAD program for 2d drawings.

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I'm completing a project which was done entirely in 3D on VectorWorks, with passable progress drawings in VW, then translated into AutoCAD by two drafters in about 1.5 weeks - 15 sheets of the permit set, will need another 5-10 sheets of details and boilerplate. The ACAD drawings, an office requirement, were created from .dwg exports of plans, elevation, sections, and detail sketches. I know the position of every element in the building in 3D space to the nearest .001", I've looked at it from every possible angle inside and out using the realtime walkthrough tool, reworked all awkward collisions and design variations that didn't work, etc. The software could be better, but works for me. Client, consultants and contractor love the 3D renderings that were basically a free side benefit of the design process. They wanted to know what the building looked like from an entry gate 1000' down the hill, and I was able to show them in less than a minute.

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