Jump to content
  • 0

3Dconnexion SpaceMouse - Reversed Axes, Roll Left/Right


Mark Aceto

Question

After learning subdivision modeling, I immediately bought a SpaceMouse Enterprise. BTW the subdivision gum ball needs to be an option in all object selection modes (like Rhino, Cinema R24, etc). I can't believe that funntionality has existed in VW for years without existing everywhere in VW.

 

I finally figured out how rotate an object in 3D using Target Camera Mode. However... 

  1. Compared to the demo 3DC Trainer app, all axes are reversed in VW: up is down, left is right, pushing in is pulling out... 
  2. From what I understand, VW doesn't support rolling left/right. Please tell me that's not the case anymore because that's the whole point of "6 degrees of freedom"
  3. Also, I guess there's no hope of tool icons for Mac users because 3DC just hasn't been able to solve that feat of engineering in the past 4+ years
Edited by Mark Aceto
Link to comment

21 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0
17 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

Also, I guess there's no hope of tool icons for Mac users

 

They made a hint on the Forum that it may be possible or come in the future.

(Something I also wouldn't have expected anymore)

But if we see how long they try to offer KEXT-less Driver for macOS and other

issues I would not bet we will survive that date.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

From what I understand, VW doesn't support rolling left/right. Please tell me that's not the case anymore because that's the whole point of "6 degrees of freedom"

 

I personally hate "Trackball Rotation" and am very unhappy that you can't

prevent 3D Navigators from doing so in C4D, opposed to you can for

Mouse Navigation.

Usually that is prevented in many Apps activating by "Lock Horizon" setting

which you usaally reach over 3DCon's "Menu" button.

(Which I am currently missing in Bricscad for macOS)

AFAIK that Setting was never accessible by VW.

I personally am very happy that lock horizon in VW is ON by default,

but not satisfying for you.

(I would not mind having an optional setting to deactivate)

 

As I currently use my (original) Space Navigator's available 2 Buttons,

for X=Select and Fit View, it seems there is no option to open 3DCon VW

Setting else. So I can't check.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

Compared to the demo 3DC Trainer app, all axes are reversed in VW: up is down, left is right, pushing in is pulling out... 

 

 

AFAIK VW has a few Preselection Modes like Flythrough, Helicopter and Flyover (?)

which may mirror the Axes in favour to you.

But I usually also use mirrored Axes in the 3DCon Driver Settings, for VW.

 

For me it was annoying that VW flipped the 3DCon Axes between Orthogonal vs Perspective View.

But if I got that right, they fixed it for VW 2021 (?)

Just the Rotation Center is still arbitrary from my view.

But I see I have all of the 3D "bank" options replaced in 3DCon Driver Settings for VW

 

Screenshot_2021-05-29_00_02_33.thumb.jpg.4db1437313025ee622d700716ddf70b1.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
  • 0

@zoomer thank you-- I thought I was losing my mind! I spent most of today reading through every SpaceMouse post here in the forum from the past 5 years. I'll reverse the mapping in 3DC prefs to match the Training app as in your screenshot.

 

The banking (rolling) options can be disabled in 3DC prefs. So, if VW ever supports rolling left/right, you can keep them disabled to lock the horizon. For subdivision modeling, I can't imagine working without roll left/right. To be clear, I don't need the SpaceMouse to navigate walk throughs. I need to roll the model in every direction for subdivision editing (and general modeling for that matter).

 

I was able to set the origin to orbit as expected in Target Camera Mode (absolutely mind-boggling to me that everyone here uses Helicopter mode for that). Even with the object not at 0,0,0, it works fine. Depending where the object is, and what other objects are around it, selecting the object helps. Logically, that makes sense because the tool can't read minds. From what I can tell, VW Flyover tool modes don't affect SP behavior. The other thing I noticed is that to get the object to spin around it's center (vs a wider "ferris wheel" path), I have to twist not push the joystick. Maybe I'll share a screen recording after I get this dialed in... 

 

Edited by Mark Aceto
Link to comment
  • 0

Well, for me the Rotation Center never works

(Because I mixed up the Axes ?)

It always rotates about File Origin for me,

which is never what I need.

 

Already tried to set/switch through Fly Over options

or to select objects in the desired center - no way.

 

Basically I just want the same behavior from 3DCon as I have with Fly Over and Mouse.

Like in any App else, just not VW.

Edited by zoomer
Link to comment
  • 0
4 minutes ago, zoomer said:

Basically I just want the same behavior from 3DCon as I have with Fly Over and Mouse.

Like in any App else, just not VW.

 

Same. I'll upload a screen recording shortly.

 

In the meantime, I'm stabbing in the dark with mapping the axes. I don't know how they're so screwed up after all these years of partnership... 

Link to comment
  • 0
3 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

after all these years of partnership... 

 

I would better call it an affair.

They had contact, implemented it nicely into VW with Icons (Windows)

and App specific Commands. Was it VW 2017 ?

 

And as often, immediately abandoned it after again.

Which you might experience when installing the next VW Version in September.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
  • 0

Screen recording attached:

 

 

I lost roll again, so I'll have to troubleshoot that.

 

The other annoying thing is that there seems to be a bug causing the SpaceMouse to forget Target Camera Mode while I'm rotating the object, so I have to cycle through those options to restore it.

 

Honestly, I'm just super irritated with 3DC's QC. They need to step up for VW and Mac users, and get it together. And that's coming from the guy that you'd have to pry the wired CadMouse from his dead hands (me). It's just this damned SpaceMouse that's buggy as hell. All of the advantages of this convoluted device seem canceled out by the bugs and caveats, and now I'm just back to remapping keyboard / mouse keys to temporality activate the flyover tool.

 

60061740_ScreenShot2021-05-28at5_19_34PM.thumb.png.99e8c8670eb6cf22197d546c06dc7ab9.png941539280_ScreenShot2021-05-28at5_12_09PM.thumb.png.a00002a9638f5e7be15f2a8055abbf6c.png

Edited by Mark Aceto
Link to comment
  • 0
Posted (edited)

Revisiting this almost exactly a year later with a Spacemouse Wireless, and I really can find no joy using it.

 

VW still doesn't seem to have Roll (just Tilt). Spinning only works the way I want if the object center is at 0,0,0 (otherwise it's like a boomerang or race car going around a track). Tilting is like riding around a ferris wheel (vs a spit roast). I only want to rotate an object (in all  6  4 degrees of freedom) around its center (a center that I choose with a click regardless of it's X,Y,Z).

 

I'm beginning to suspect that VW users only use Helicopter mode for navigation / presentation purposes vs Object / Target Camera mode for modeling (in the CAM sense).

 

What I'm still searching for is a way to use the Flyover Tool with my left hand. Is there another 3D mouse that will enable me to accomplish this? I wonder if a simple trackball mouse would work for this? Use the CadMouse in my right hand to click the center, and then use the trackball to rotate? Would have to figure out the Context-click to avoid continuously selecting / deselecting the Flyover tool... 

 

Edited by Mark Aceto
  • Like 1
Link to comment
  • 0
Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2022 at 7:48 AM, Maxsquat11 said:

I opened the setting.  Under speeds I picked the reverse box one rotation at a time. sideways reverse on then off to each of the movements.

 

For anyone following this that's using a Mac, these settings are the green arrows at the bottom of the Axes tab. Windows has a completely different UI. @zoomer's screenshot shows the "reverse" setting for each.

 

I've also noticed that these settings want to change for each mode: Object, Target / Camera... so you kind of have to pick a mode, adjust the settings, and stick with it for better and for worse.

 

Edited by Mark Aceto
Link to comment
  • 0
2 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

Revisiting this almost exactly a year later with a Spacemouse Wireless, and I really can find no joy using it.

I came to the same conclusion a little while ago.  The 3dConnexion set is back in the box it came in, and likely headed to Ebay.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
  • 0

I just tested it in Rhino 7 and SketchUp 2021, and started running into similar issues, searching forums for solutions... 

 

My assumption is that these gizmos only work with Solidworks on Windows 7, and everyone else is in a world of pain (aside from Helicopter fly throughs).

 

Guess there's a good reason why UE and TM don't support them... 

Link to comment
  • 0
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

and everyone else is in a world of pain (aside from Helicopter fly throughs)

 

 

Yes, but I get ill from flying helicopters ....

So I either work in orthogonally views only or manually mirror the rotation axes.

 

And I do not know why it is so hard for VW to just offer the same center of rotation

options as the Fly Over Tool does. Space Mice just use File Origin, no matter what

Setup in Fly Over Tool.

 

Edited by zoomer
Link to comment
  • 0
On 5/25/2022 at 10:45 AM, zoomer said:

Space Mice just use File Origin, no matter what

Setup in Fly Over Tool.

 

I also think they're using the perspective file origin which is 3-point perspective, so "Z" is actually below 0,0,0 ?

 

Below is a quick screen recording of the Spacemouse functioning pretty much exactly how I would want / expect it to in the Trainer app. Also, keep in mind that I have very little experience using a 3D mouse but have no problem controlling it in the trainer app vs VW where it feels like the object is tied to a string that I'm swinging around... 

 

@Luis M Ruizis it possible to accomplish this in VW? I understand roll is not an option but hopefully the rest? @markdd? Anyone else?

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
  • 0

I’m afraid not Mark. Basically, as I understand it, the space mouse is more of a controller for the walkthrough tool/orbit tool, and what is in the trainer video isn’t currently possible in Vectorworks.

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
  • 0
Posted (edited)

But that works flawlessly in my other 3D Apps

(Modo, C4D, Bricscad)

 

There is no auto switch between orthogonal or perspective.

 

They are behaving exactly the same as their standard Mouse 3D View Rotation Tools do.

And usually, for those who need, you can easily switch "lock horizon" OFF or switch

to a Helicopter or Walk Through Mode.

Edited by zoomer
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
  • 0

I have a CadMouse Pro Wireless + a SpaceMouse Wireless. On my CadMouse I have the middle button mapped to ‘Switch Navigation’. If I first select an object then hit the middle button until it says ‘Using Target Camera Mode Navigation’ at the bottom of the screen then that object will spin around like the teapot. In this rather clunky way I can switch between objects + get them to spin the way I want them. Not great but better than your objects swinging off into space never to be seen again which is what happens otherwise. I think it orbits around the User Origin otherwise? I am in georeferenced files most of the time so the User Origin is hundreds of miles away so a very long piece of string…. Everything literally disappears in an instance + I have to do fit to objects to get it back. Horrible

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
  • 0
  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Take a look at the one for Onshape.  That'll get you the feel you are looking for.  These devices are mainly for 3d work as we all know, but not all 3d jobs are the same.  Laying walls in a project are not the same as removing a pipe from under a car chassis.  Sometimes you want the object be the things that rotates and others be the active observer who can walk thru a project

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...