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Benson Shaw

Quit error & backup file work flow

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Posted (edited)

1.  Anyone else experience similar? Any antidote? Or is this just Mac Big Sur action?

Vectorworks generates an error after every Quit command whether file saved or not, whether Quit from closed or open file.

  • Quit via Cmd Q
  • Quit command from the Vectorworks menu
  • Quit command from the pulldown in the Dock icon
  • Quit from Cmd Tab icons.

This error window displays every time, about a minute after vwx shutdown, even after system restart and vwx launch, new or old file.  Error is the usual MacOS window indicating that Vectorworks quit unexpectedly (But, I Quit it on purpose!).  Error window contains option to send report to Apple and text of the crash info - a recent one attached here as an rtf.

 

2.  I have the autosave pref set to save a backup file to a folder in same location as source file, and to keep 1 backup.  When I look in the backup folder, often I find many backups of the file.  Is this expected? No prob, just curious. Occasionally I look in the backup folder and delete all but a few of the most recent backups.

 

3.  What is proper workflow for employing these backup files?  This is my process when I need to access one:

  • Close the original file.
  • Drag a copy of the backup file to desktop, open to examine.  
  • If the backup is suitable, save/close the file
  • Relocate it to project folder
  • Delete the original
  • Edit name of the backup to match name of the original
  • Open the backup and work on it, save as needed.

 

Any comment welcome.

-B

vwx2021Crash.rtf

Edited by Benson Shaw
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Posted (edited)

Never experienced Quit error here.

(Meanwhile on Big Sur 11.5 Public Beta on M1)

 

Ideas :

- not enough rights applied to VW in Apple Settings > Privacy

(disk access ?)

- VW Installation broken, Updater > Repair option

- If storing on server or NAS, network setup or access rights

 

 

Backup Files here :

- local Folder on System SSD to make Autobackup faster and

have everything at on place for cleaning up

- separate Folders for each App and/or App Versions

- keeping 1-3 File versions

- Saving time every 5-8 minutes, more for complex files where Backup

needs more than 2 seconds. VW better set to after number of steps

(16?) to avoid crashing when backup interferes with user usage/inputs.

 

Recover from Backup :

- Work File corrupt/missing objects/accidental deleted objects/user error/....

- maybe before a manual backup of VW Work Files and Backups

- starting VW and loading backup file

1.

If Backup OK, save as Work File and overwrite existing,

go on working.

2.

If Backup not OK,

searching through Time Machine (*) and/or monthly manual Backups

on external SSDs.

 

(*)

When starting with M1 Mac, at first I reused my existing Time Machine

andDrive. I tried a few occasions to restore some files

(Accidentally deleted from Windows, so no undo/trash can !)

But had no access to any file in Time Machine !

Meanwhile II recreated TM from scratch but AFAIK have not yet tested

If TM on Big Sur/M1 works for me at all ....

 

Edited by zoomer
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@zoomer many thanks for extensive comments.

 

I could not see any permissions irregularities.  So I tried the installer Rebuild suggestion.  It reported 55 files found and corrected. Not clear which files or where found.  Tested the Quit command.  A new file, saved with a single rectangle, produced the Quit error.  A project file (formerly produced the error) was changed by selecting an existing object, saved, then quit.  No error.  So, still investigating.

 

Regarding vwx auto backup files:

I did not previously try Save As option to overwrite the source file.  Might go with that in future because a bit easier. I wonder if process roots out corruption as well as renaming a copy of the backup and deleting the source.  I have not tried any of these methods with referenced files in play.  Might need to renew all references to/from the source file.

 

OK, Thanks again, Zoomer!  You da Best!

 

-B

 

 

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Wait.

I was just a the first to post his way to work and experiences.

That doesn't mean that is the best recommendation.

 

2 hours ago, Benson Shaw said:

I wonder if process roots out corruption

 

I have no clue if VW really does anything special or if a backup

is just a dumb file copy.

If I see that the backup content looks better than my original

work file, I just go on with the backup.

 

But I have even less clue how to recover files from Bricscad backups,

how RECOVER differs from just loading the file, if *.bak files would

help or are just to accelerate saving of files.

Just the experience that running an AUDIT -fix may just delete some

parts of your (crappy) geometry.

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Hi @Benson Shaw, I agree with @zoomer's suggestion about Vectorworks not having adequate permissions to save the file. If you have antivirus software installed this makes that possibility almost an absolute. 

 

Either way, I suggest you:

  1. Duplicate/backup your Vectorworks User Folder, then
  2. Download a fresh Vectorworks installer, then 
  3. Uninstall Vectorworks using the dedicated 'Uninstall' app in the Vectorworks program folder,
    • Be sure to allow the uninstall app to remove your current User Folder, then 
  4. Disable all antivirus 'real time protection' or similarly named function/service, then 
  5. Reinstall Vectorworks. 
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On 5/25/2021 at 11:46 AM, zoomer said:

But I have even less clue how to recover files from Bricscad backups,

how RECOVER differs from just loading the file, if *.bak files would

help or are just to accelerate saving of files.

Just the experience that running an AUDIT -fix may just delete some

parts of your (crappy) geometry.

Bricscad has two types of backup files, the *.bak which are created upon saving the current file and creates a file that is a backup of the version saved before the current manual save operation, this is similar to the VW backup on save.

 

Then there are the *.sv$ backups which are the autosave files, similar to VW automatic backups/saves and keeping x number of backups except that Briscad does not have a number limit and those are by default stored in the temp folder but you can specify a specific directory if you would like to keep the autosave files in case of a crash so that you can use the most recent autosave as a starting point instead of the perhaps much older *.bak file.

 

Recover is used for when you cannot open the file in a normal way, audit can be used when you can open the file but is may have errors in it. In most cases they are doing practically the same thing.

Audit and recover can delete corrupted/invalid (crappy) geometry if it is there, but more often it fixes the internal file database structure by e.g. cleaning up object ID's of deleted objects etc. that are still floating around.

 

I like VW's autosave and keep x number of backups better also because you can have it save into a subfolder of your working folder so that the autosaves are kept with the project and not have all projects lumped together as Bricscad does by default.

 

 

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On 5/25/2021 at 11:46 AM, zoomer said:

If I see that the backup content looks better than my original

work file, I just go on with the backup.

This is what I usually do as well, as there is no point in doing all the work again if it is in the backup file.

 

The only issue I have with VW backup files is that it is not so easy to check data in records compared to the previously saved version, it is far easier to see if geometry is still there than it is to check e.g. record data updates still being there or not.

It would be nice if VW would have a standard drawing comparison tool that would show the differences so that you can see if certain data updates are in the most recent backup file or not. (As well as other updates of course).

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4 hours ago, Art V said:

Bricscad has two types of backup files, the *.bak which are created upon saving the current file and creates a file that is a backup of the version saved before the current manual save operation, this is similar to the VW backup on save.

 

Yes, the BAK is the previous state before saving.

But AFAIK the meaning of that BAK beside the File is that it should

do saving faster !?

BAKs are a bit annoying though.

First on Mac BAKs are not hidden and together with DWL(+2) and

destroy your project folder readability.

Second,

I marked some DWGs with macOS coloring, which had better import

results than VW. But when saving, Bricscad converts the original File

to BAK and the File itself is recreated after saving.

So my color marking is now at the BAK and lost for the actual File.

 

 

4 hours ago, Art V said:

Then there are the *.sv$ backups which are the autosave files,

 

I activated Autobackup at my custom location,

with proper time interval and number.

But why are so cryptically named and when you need them you need

to sort them by date first .....

 

 

4 hours ago, Art V said:

Recover is used for when you cannot open the file in a normal way, audit can be used when you can open the file but is may have errors in it. In most cases they are doing practically the same thing.

Audit and recover can delete corrupted/invalid (crappy) geometry if it is there, but more often it fixes the internal file database structure by e.g. cleaning up object ID's of deleted objects etc. that are still floating around.

 

Thanks.

So maybe RECOVER a kind of pulling objects out of file without really opening the whole file,

AUDITing and if applicable, write them into a new file ?

 

Yes, my problem with AUDIT -FIX,

for the crappy files/imports I get, is that after AUDIT I miss large parts of

the geometry I had before 🙂

 

 

4 hours ago, Art V said:

I like VW's autosave and keep x number of backups better also because you can have it save into a subfolder of your working folder so that the autosaves are kept with the project and not have all projects lumped together as Bricscad does by default.

 

I have a local global Backups Folder, with all Autobackups from 5-7 Apps or

different release versions of Apps.

Beside that it is easy to find and to clean up from time to time, if I had Autobackups

directly in my Project Folder, they would be in deparate places for each App anyway.

And they are faster on my lokal fast SSD vs a slow Server Path.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Art V said:

This is what I usually do as well, as there is no point in doing all the work again if it is in the backup file.

 

 

I was more thinking about ways like pulling the missing/corrupt parts only

out of the Backup or pulling everything over into a new blank File and

such things.

But when I can't open the work file or it looks corrupt,

I just examine the Backup and if good, immediately overwrite the corrupt working file.

Not really sure if that is too naive or too risky that way.

 

Edited by zoomer

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35 minutes ago, zoomer said:

But AFAIK the meaning of that BAK beside the File is that it should

do saving faster !?

No, not really, if it does then it is more a side effect. What does affect saving speed is setting the save percent variable to a larger value so that more wasted space is allowed before it does a full save (which takes longer). The downside is that the file size may become a bit larger.

 

40 minutes ago, zoomer said:

So maybe RECOVER a kind of pulling objects out of file without really opening the whole file,

AUDITing and if applicable, write them into a new file ?

Recover updates (or replaces) the existing file so in a way yes. Though I never really bothered to find out exact inner workings of recover vs audit as long as it fixes the file well enough.

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39 minutes ago, zoomer said:

But when I can't open the work file or it looks corrupt,

I just examine the Backup and if good, immediately overwrite the corrupt working file.

Not really sure if that is too naive or too risky that way.

If you can't open the working file then I wouldn't worry about replacing it with the backup file, it works the same as with Vectorworks in that case where I also replace the damaged file with the most recent working backup file..

What I usually do is delete the damaged file and then rename the *.bak to *.dwg, or do that to a copy of the *.bak file in case you want to keep the *bak file just in case.

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24 minutes ago, Art V said:

No, not really, if it does then it is more a side effect. What does affect saving speed is setting the save percent variable to a larger value so that more wasted space is allowed before it does a full save (which takes longer). The downside is that the file size may become a bit larger.

 

Recover updates (or replaces) the existing file so in a way yes. Though I never really bothered to find out exact inner workings of recover vs audit as long as it fixes the file well enough.

 

1.

I still don't really understand the first paragraph.

 

2.

OK, but it does the same as Audit, so by "-fix" you may lose crappy objects,

that you otherwise could try to fix or redraw manually.

BTW

RVT import seems to exclude already most corrupt elements, which IFC

would bring in anyway. Both in BC and VW (?)

 

But yes, if they are crap and corrupting the file they should go ASAP.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Art V said:

If you can't open the working file then I wouldn't worry about replacing it with the backup file, it works the same as with Vectorworks in that case where I also replace the damaged file with the most recent working backup file..

 

Yes, I meant VW in that case.

I also do Backups of Autobackups if I get into real problems.

But in most cases I don't bother and just rely on or trust Time Machine,

I immediately overwrite the crappy working file without much thinking.

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23 hours ago, zoomer said:

1.

I still don't really understand the first paragraph

It just means that a full save takes more time (though with smal(ler) files you may not notice), the more "wasted space" you allow (a higher save percent value) the longer it takes to do a full save. It will basically save only the new objects while leaving the old unchanged stuff alone, i.e. an incremental save until the percentage of wasted spaced reaches the value in the save percent setting then it will do a full save and remove the wasted space and reduce your file size. This is what makes saving files a bit faster.

 

Setting save percent value to 0 (zero) will cause BricsCAD to always do a full save.

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