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move by points terribly slow


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I think this happens since 2021/SP3:

Move by points preview seems to limit the functionality and it's nearly impossible to move larger objecs.


Moving around a few 2D/3D objects is still working properly. Whats not working is to grab all objects from an enitre drawing or a big group, and move this by points.

Before SP3 doing this was slow too and there was a lack of 3-5 seconds, depending on the amount of objects, but it dit work. Now it's impossible to do that, after selecting the objects and doing the first click the "wheel of death" keeps running for minutes now.

It's no problem to move such big groups of objects by drag and drop or to do this via move command, only the move by points command fails.

Anyone else here has this problem ?

Edited by halfcoupler
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In Preferences you can set the quality of presentations. Dont know the exact wording, but somewhere in the View tab you can change it from Best Quality to a setting with Good quality and more compatibility.  Had good result when changing this setting with more complex drawings. 

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  • 1 month later...

Thank You, but after checking all prefererence there is nothing that helps.

 

Recently I worked with a group from an imported dwg which contains 24,000 objects. (2D) I accidently activated this group with the move by points tool. Result: VW freezes for more than one hour. But even smaller groups of 100-500 objects can not be moved by points properly.

Anyone else here has this experience ?

I generally use move by points instead of drag and drop objects, since it is more exact, so this compelety kills my workflow...

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On 5/8/2021 at 9:06 AM, halfcoupler said:

Move by points preview seems to limit the functionality and it's nearly impossible to move larger objecs.

 

Anyone else here has this problem ?

 

Yep.

 

I had selected only parts of elements of a large file,

which where at a wrong position and height.

Non usable.

Also Revit or IFC import.

 

At first I tried with Select/Drag tool, was OK for XY in Top Plan View

to bring it near about its position.

But when I tried in Z direction in a controlled way, VW lagged so much

in every way that I was neither able to find my Z Axis for "T" key lock

nor to see where it will snap or not.

That's the reason why I trie Move by Points afterwards which didn't

work any better.

 

Cursor lags, Snap lags, Preview lags, ...

 

I think in general we are all happy to have VW's dynamic Preview.

But in this Situation I was totally annoyed that I can't deactivate it.

(Or would there be any way !?)

Edited by zoomer
  • Like 1
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12 hours ago, zoomer said:

I think in general we are all happy to have VW's dynamic Preview.

But in this Situation I was totally annoyed that I can't deactivate it.

 

I fear it's not only the preview which causes this problem. But the possibility to deactivate it for slower computers could be helpful.

 

8 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

Try Grouping the selection before you move it.

 

That was my first thought too, but in the described case, which causes VW to freeze, the selection is already a group.

But the idea to reduce the handles is the right way: Making a symbol out of the group works !

A good workaround, but quite embarassing for a CAD programme to force the user to create a symbol before moving things around.

Whats more: I can't create a symbol with objects on different layers, so moving several objects on different layers in Show/Snap/Modity mode is not possible.

Edited by halfcoupler
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Another thing you can try is to disable all snaps in the snapping palette before selecting and moving, that way it won't have to spend time trying to locate a snap in a crowded selection/drawing.

 

I had this issue with earlier VW versions as well and one of the things that would speed this up was disabling layer with geometry that is not needed for moving and disabling all snaps.

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47 minutes ago, Art V said:

you can try is to disable all snaps in the snapping palette

 

yes,  tried that, disabled everything exept Master Snap ( At least there has to remain ONE Snap, otherwise move by point makes no sense at all).

But no effect.

 

I just made  a test with the same file in VW 2020 (which has no preview) and the result is that move by points with a group of 24,000 objects is slow, but it works within a few seconds and does not crash or freeze. Seems to be a typical "programming-disimprovement" issue with VW2021.

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2 hours ago, halfcoupler said:

I just made  a test with the same file in VW 2020 (which has no preview) and the result is that move by points with a group of 24,000 objects is slow, but it works within a few seconds and does not crash or freeze. Seems to be a typical "programming-disimprovement" issue with VW2021.

The problem was very bad in VW2019 and then improved over various SP's in VW2020 to become usable again. It would be a bit disappointing if the issue returned with VW 2021 SP3.

 

What happens if you disable Master Snap but leave one of the "normal" snaps that is the most useful for you on? I do remember there being an issue with Master Snap on, but don't remember if it was also affecting this particular issue, but turning the Master Snap off made an improvement in speed as well.

Edited by Art V
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12 minutes ago, Art V said:

What happens if you disable Master Snap but leave one of the "normal" snaps

 

No chance, nothing works.

 

13 minutes ago, Art V said:

The problem was very bad in VW2019 and then improved over various SP's in VW2020 to become usable again. It would be a bit disappointing if the issue returned with VW 2021 SP3.

 

...is IS dissapointing...😗

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Not everyone was suffering from it back then esp. on Macs it looked like it wasn't much of an issue, and it is not sure yet if the cause is the same but it looks like it could be.

 

But I agree it is disappointing to have this issue again as it is an aggravating one.

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  • 2 months later...

just fighted again with drawing of a grandstand with 2,500 seats, where seats are symbols. I is definitely impossible to move complete seating blocks with the move by points tool.

Seems that this issue is depending on the count of objects to be moved. Up to 20 objects is working ok, but moving more than 500 objects causes my cpu to 100 % workload and VW takes almost an hour to complete the process. Killing VW via taskmanager is the only way out of this.

 

Hope there will be a solution for this in VW 22 ?  🙏

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2 hours ago, halfcoupler said:

just fighted again with drawing of a grandstand with 2,500 seats, where seats are symbols. I is definitely impossible to move complete seating blocks with the move by points tool.

Seems that this issue is depending on the count of objects to be moved. Up to 20 objects is working ok, but moving more than 500 objects causes my cpu to 100 % workload and VW takes almost an hour to complete the process. Killing VW via taskmanager is the only way out of this.

 

Hope there will be a solution for this in VW 22 ?  🙏

 

 

Are you working in top/plan or a 3d view? How complex is the seat symbol? I often add a simplified footprint to a symbol in its own class, so I can turn all the other parts of a symbol off when doing operations like you describe. Also, you can turn off pre-selection highlighting which can help a lot. Handles, selection highlighting etc. have not been moved over to the VGM yet so they are bottlenecks.

 

Finally, I would try another method instead of the Move by Points tools. Maybe try grabbing at a known point, option drag a copy, tab into the data bar and manually enter the new x and y coordinates. I'm not sure if the Move by Points tool has been updated to take advantage of modern code......

 

Kevin

 

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Hi Kevin,

 

thank you for your thoughs 🙂

I have tested this a lot, it doesn't matter if I'm in 3D Mode or in a top/Plan Mode in 2D.

The complexty of the symbol or objects matters, but you can reproduce this problem with pure amout of simple objects:

- draw a simple square

- use duplicate array to draw 10,000 squares in an array of 100 x 100 squares

- select all, and move this array with the move by point tool in duplicate mode so you get 20,000 squares.

- repeat this

=> on my system VW starts to get laggy after the second copy, which is moving 20,000 squares.

 

Seems that somehow there is a limit of calculation operations that can be handled by the move by point tool.

 

4 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Also, you can turn off pre-selection highlighting

 

Good idea. Where do I do that ? Is that in the preferences settings ? I think the whole problem started with introducing the tool preview. Can this be turned off ? Can't find anything in the preferance settings.

 

4 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

I often add a simplified footprint to a symbol in its own class

 

Also a good idea. As a start, I will try to make the seating symbol a hybrid with a simple 2D square and move it only in 2D plan mode. My problem is that the scaffold substruction of the grandstand has to be copied too, which causes the same problem. So I will end up in manipulating all my symbols...

 

4 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Finally, I would try another method

 

Yes, my workaround friend is the duplicate arry tool, but you always have to identify the "move-vector" first, which slows down the drawing speed.

 

Georg

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
On 9/16/2021 at 3:29 PM, Kyle Sutton said:

@halfcoupler We made some improvements to the Move by Points tool's performance in VW2022. Would you please directly send me your file so I can try and reproduce your crash in order to fix the issue?

@halfcoupler Just want to let you know, the crash has been fixed for service pack two. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

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