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STYLED SECTION-ELEVATION LINES TURN ALL AT ONE POINT TO 'UNSTYLED'


drelARCH

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Hello vw community,

 

Since introduction of section elevation line style I am continuously seeing some unpleasant behaviour: styled lines turn into unstyled ... accross all file. 

Are we aware of some bug that cause this issue? At some point in every file it always happens...and whenever i spot this just happend and want to replace back unstyled with styled line resource browser is empty of previously used section elevation style line....I have to bring that style anew from my library file ...strange

My section lines are always present only in sheet layer viewports (section and horizontal section). I wonder if it has something to do with duplication of viewport with section line already present...?

Is there something to be aware of...?

 

@Matt Panzer has somebody already come up with this issue?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Hi @drelARCH,

 

I have not heard of this issue before and don't see any bug reports on it.  It sounds to me like something caused the style resource to be deleted from your file.  When a style resource is deleted, all instances of the style will become unstyled.  Is there any chance you may've deleted it by accident?  The only other thing that comes to mind is if the Purge command somehow deleted it.

 

If you have any other ideas of what actions lead up to this happening, please let me know.  So far, I have not been able to reproduce the issue.

 

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Possibly deleted by accident.

 

This is what I occasionally do:  I drag a resource into my drawing from the RM then realize I didn't want it. Hitting delete straight away acts on the resource definition in the RM rather than the instance in the drawing. I have deleted several styled objects this way (where the instances of a deleted style become unstyled).

 

I have to remember to select the resource instance in the file first before hitting delete...

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I suppose when deleting any resource one should be presented with dialogue box asking confirmation? but i wasnt .....or not? can i delete resource definition in RM without confirmation?

 

@Pat Stanford I do have couple of scripts in this file (no marionette objects) but I cant remember using any of them before problem occurred. I have scripts like 'show all', hide unselected, hide selected ...but as stated in my previous post this is happening at some point in my every file of different projects and I am sure I don't have in all of them scripts or marionette objects and literally i am starting to use scripts more often since only last few weeks.

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@drelARCH  Then it is possible that @Boh has the right solution. I was just thinking that perhaps you had a custom script that was trying to do some "housekeeping" and was accidentally deleting something you still need.

 

Unless you can better define the actions you are doing that are causing the deletion, we are all just guessing. This is not a problem that is being reported by a lot of people (you are actually the first I remember), it is probably specific to your setup or actions and not a general VW bug.

 

Sorry to not be of more help.

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@drelARCH is correct their should be a dialogue prior to items being deleted but sometimes I get lazy and dont pay attention...

Do you purge your files? If so perhaps you have “purge special symbols” selected in the purge dialogue and perhaps “preview items to purge” unchecked?

 

This would wipe out styled symbol definitions.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
5 minutes ago, Boh said:

@drelARCH is correct their should be a dialogue prior to items being deleted but sometimes I get lazy and dont pay attention...

 

Right.  Vectorworks should ask you before deleting resources from the resource browser.

 

5 minutes ago, Boh said:

Do you purge your files? If so perhaps you have “purge special symbols” selected in the purge dialogue and perhaps “preview items to purge” unchecked?

 

This would wipe out styled symbol definitions.

 

Purge should only delete unused styles, so I doubt that is the issue.  However, if you see otherwise, let us know.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks all for the effort to find issue.

 

I am 100% sure I accidentally didn't hit delete button on confirmation. Actually never had it presented.

I do use purge function but it was definitely not the case of my last file as I try to be very disciplined about only having needed resources and If there are few uneeded I delete them in RM.

 

My feeling is that it occurs somewhere in process of duplication of existing section viewports and correction and manipulation of section lines instances...

 

My workflow over last couple of projects: I would have set up of few sheet layers with plans (horizontal section viewports with section lines present), sections (section viewports some connected to section lines ), elevations (sometimes section viewports [some connected to section lines] and sometimes regular viewports) and 3D views viewports. Then I duplicate at once all sheet layers and create another set of sheet layers with viewports with different set o design layers for project version 2 later if needed project 3...4etc if needed. I then need to go and correct section lines instances so there is not crossing in between versions. Normally I have one custom section line style that I use across all project files.

Then typically over the time after the project is developed further I add more section viewports within one version of projects by duplicating existing section viewports and correcting position of section line in horizontal section viewports...

 

... well all this steps seem to me as standard workflow and shouldn't cause issues...but but

 

Edited by drelARCH
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
11 hours ago, drelARCH said:

Thanks all for the effort to find issue.

 

I am 100% sure I accidentally didn't hit delete button on confirmation. Actually never had it presented.

I do use purge function but it was definitely not the case of my last file as I try to be very disciplined about only having needed resources and If there are few uneeded I delete them in RM.

 

My feeling is that it occurs somewhere in process of duplication of existing section viewports and correction and manipulation of section lines instances...

 

My workflow over last couple of projects: I would have set up of few sheet layers with plans (horizontal section viewports with section lines present), sections (section viewports some connected to section lines ), elevations (sometimes section viewports [some connected to section lines] and sometimes regular viewports) and 3D views viewports. Then I duplicate at once all sheet layers and create another set of sheet layers with viewports with different set o design layers for project version 2 later if needed project 3...4etc if needed. I then need to go and correct section lines instances so there is not crossing in between versions. Normally I have one custom section line style that I use across all project files.

Then typically over the time after the project is developed further I add more section viewports within one version of projects by duplicating existing section viewports and correcting position of section line in horizontal section viewports...

 

... well all this steps seem to me as standard workflow and shouldn't cause issues...but but

 

 

Unfortunately, without a reproducible case, there's little we can do.  I just experimented with the workflow you described but was not able to recreate this problem.  Please let us know if you discover any more clues.

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Posted (edited)

My latest observations:

 

I m seeing that I have section-elevation lines in horizontal section viewport (In this case viewport name: POD-1NP-30-AS-2) that in OIP show this:

322106818_Snmkaobrazovky2021-05-07o8_09_58.thumb.png.91dbebeb1c0427de892a627c5c3305fd.png

 

Styled as expected and linked correctly to a section viewport. 

Now i use 'Navigate to Viewport' button to get to related viewport. In section viewports selected i go to 'section line instances' and I dont have any checkmark assigned.....?

1935104261_Snmkaobrazovky2021-05-07o8_10_16.thumb.png.11b38dd169ae8bd6f680f1722a3c0e72.png1715743585_Snmkaobrazovky2021-05-07o8_10_11.thumb.png.8b8daee84e9d3550d278cfe70d9cd0d1.png

However when I place checkmark to relevant viewport (In this case: POD-1NP-30-AS-2) it creates new section-elevation line (on top of previous one) in that viewport in unstyled way.

 

706296621_Snmkaobrazovky2021-05-07o8_11_07.thumb.png.731e295ee9f3be0dcc7f1047d8d7f683.png

 

I dont know if this behaviour is related to issues with styled and unstyled section line but it might shed more light...If I can recall I would select multiple section viewports and assign 'section-elevation lines' at one go to horizontal section viewport...but I dont remember having duplicates of section lines for any given viewport...so not sure

....

Ok, after all...writing this post and going over and over the described process I see that there are two types of section-elevation lines first as marker connected to any selected viewport and second as line that actually define viewport itself. I knew that already but am surprised that I having section-elevation line markers in my file. Never deliberately created one.

But I guess it is effect of duplicating sheet layers/viewports and real section-elevation lines (ones that define section viewport) becoming markers...?

 

One note after all this: I dont see much indication in OIP of section-elevation lines being marker vs real section-line and to clearly see difference...

 

Look forward hearing your opinion.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by drelARCH
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

@drelARCH,

Thank you for investigating and explaining this in such detail!

 

From what I see, duplicating a viewport containing a Section-Elevation Line that defines a section viewport should result in the a viewport containing another "defining" Section-Elevation Line.  However, copy/pasting or option-dragging a copy of the a Section-Elevation Line will result in one that's "linked" to a viewport but not defining one.

 

A way to tell the difference is to select one and look at the Linked Viewport popup in the Object Info palette.  If the popup is displaying the name of a viewport and is disabled, it's defining that viewport.  If the popup is displaying the name of a viewport and is enabled, it's linked to (but not defining) that viewport.

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Thanks @Matt Panzer

 

I suppose We are getting closer to track down issue ...and I see in which area I have to be more careful...

 

But than one thing that bother me is why section-elevation line style was deleted...? And the moment I realized lines are unstyled there was no line style resource in RM to be replaced with. This is something that wasnt only seen in last file but in every file since introduction o s-e line style...

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
3 hours ago, drelARCH said:

But than one thing that bother me is why section-elevation line style was deleted...? And the moment I realized lines are unstyled there was no line style resource in RM to be replaced with. This is something that wasnt only seen in last file but in every file since introduction o s-e line style...

 

Right.  That is the big mystery!  Played some more trying to make this happen, but I cannot find a way to recreate the problem.  I'll keep my eyes peeled for this though.

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@Matt Panzer

 

I just had perhaps the same issue as the original poster. I'm working in a file with tons of existing Reference Markers. All was fine 20 minutes ago. Suddenly right now all of my Reference Markers are unstyled, and the red PIO style definitions are no longer in the Resource Manager.

 

I haven't purged at all today, nor have I deleted anything from the RM.

 

Perhaps coincidentally, there was also one instance of a styled, unlinked Reference Marker that I'm 100% disappeared from a viewport.

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1 minute ago, Matt Panzer said:

@drelARCH, @Andy Broomell,

 

Do either of you ever use the Clip tool to crop viewports?

Well, i have used it few times. Really only few times in total but definitely in file that i came across issue that initiated this post.

 

While I know this option to crop viewport this way I somehow haven't adapted it to my workflow yet. 

There are only seldom moments that i realise this option exist and use it. But as I said using it really rarely.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
25 minutes ago, drelARCH said:

Well, i have used it few times. Really only few times in total but definitely in file that i came across issue that initiated this post.

 

Aha!!!  I believe this is the culprit!

When this problem happens, it looks like the marker objects that are not linked to a viewport somehow get deleted.  This includes the object within the Style resource.  This will become evident in the Style resource name turning blue (it should be red).  This is why the remaining objects become unstyled.

 

@Andy Broomell, please let us know if you think you used the Clip tool on a viewport as well.

 

Until we have a fix, please avoid using the Clip tool on viewports.

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Posted (edited)

I did not use the Clip tool on a Viewport.

 

The only thing I remember doing within the period that it went haywire was moving a VP from one sheet to another (via reassigning in OIP). This might also be coincidence, but the Reference Marker that completely disappeared was one that I had previously linked to the aforementioned viewport, but had since Unlinked (prior to moving).

 

So for clarity, these are the steps that were taken, but again, not sure if it's related:

-Had a regular viewport (no Design Layers visible, only Annotation content... which we do a lot for Full Scale Details).

-In a second VP which was a Section Viewport, added a styled Reference Marker in Annotations. Linked this marker to the first viewport. Because of unrelated reasons, I then unlinked the marker and entered data manually. Exit annotations.

-Moved the first viewport to another sheet.

-Went back to the second viewport to change the manually entered marker data, discovered it's now missing.

-Discovered all other markers in file are unstyled (including ones that were of different styles on multiple different sheets).
 

There were other things that I was doing in between these steps too, so hard to tell exactly what happened. I'll let you know if I discover anything else.

 

 

Edited by Andy Broomell
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
26 minutes ago, Andy Broomell said:

I did not use the Clip tool on a Viewport.

 

The only thing I remember doing within the period that it went haywire was moving a VP from one sheet to another (via reassigning in OIP). This might also be coincidence, but the Reference Marker that completely disappeared was one that I had previously linked to the aforementioned viewport, but had since Unlinked (prior to moving).

 

So for clarity, these are the steps that were taken, but again, not sure if it's related:

-Had a regular viewport (no Design Layers visible, only Annotation content... which we do a lot for Full Scale Details).

-In a second VP which was a Section Viewport, added a styled Reference Marker in Annotations. Linked this marker to the first viewport. Because of unrelated reasons, I then unlinked the marker and entered data manually. Exit annotations.

-Moved the first viewport to another sheet.

-Went back to the second viewport to change the manually entered marker data, discovered it's now missing.

-Discovered all other markers in file are unstyled (including ones that were of multiple different styles on multiple different sheets).
 

There were other things that I was doing in between these steps too, so hard to tell exactly what happened. I'll let you know if I discover anything else.

 

Thanks for the detailed description, Andy!

I'll add this information to the bug report.

BTW:  I could not reproduce the problem, but there might be some other step in there that triggered it.  My feeling is whatever you did to trigger it, is likely passing through the same code path causing the issue.  Having you workflow description might help the engineers determine that.

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16 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

Aha!!!  I believe this is the culprit!

When this problem happens, it looks like the marker objects that are not linked to a viewport somehow get deleted.  This includes the object within the Style resource.  This will become evident in the Style resource name turning blue (it should be red).  This is why the remaining objects become unstyled.

@Matt Panzer WOU!!! 

I was able to reproduce it following your description. Section line styles turning blue...under replace of unstyled section no lines styles to be found.

Thanks a lot! 

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
7 hours ago, drelARCH said:

@Matt Panzer WOU!!! 

I was able to reproduce it following your description. Section line styles turning blue...under replace of unstyled section no lines styles to be found.

Thanks a lot! 

 

You're welcome!

Thank you for your help and persistence.  Now that we have reproducible cases, we can start working on fixing it.  🙂 

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