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DTM help!!!!!!!


defjef

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DTM has worked for me on numerous occasions. I've never run across the "sitework" command. I always start with a set of polylines (topo lines), and use the "New DTM" command. If you follow all of the manual's instructions carefully, it does work. 2d polylines are converted to 3d polylines, then a 3d mesh object is created. New layers are automatically generated in the process to contain both 3D and 2D versions of the terrain, and there are a few arcane procedures to follow along the way (such as checking to ensure that topo lines don't cross). I recommend starting with a simple test model so that you can follow how the procedure works.

If you can't find any of the DTM tools, check your workspace editor to see if they exist in your version of the program. I'm not sure, but I think that plain VectorWorks does not include the tools.

[ 01-05-2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: P Retondo ]

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Sorry.. I didnt mention that I am usuing the Archtitect Module.. not the plain one. I did open the DTM workspace but did NOT notice any different commands or tools. The manual I have shows a SITEOWORK command/tool and I can't for the live of me find it. I also have a MAC which is OS 9 running 8.52 and it is also missing this command / tool. The manual is little help I found .. obviously. thanks

[ 01-05-2003, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: defjef ]

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

In VWA 1.01 (based on VW 852) the DTM features are the same as in base VectorWorks (if my memory serves me correctly -- after all, this is a pretty old release -- 3-1/2 years.) There might be a Sitework menu in the DTM workspace, but I don't think there is a Sitework commmand or tool. I'm pretty sure P Retondo has it right here.

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Robert... With all due respect... 8.52 may be old in your way of thinking...but it raises a curious point.... you people apparently are loathe to offer any kind of support for older versions of your products? And why is it so difficult for you to look at page 6-5 of the ARCHITECT documentation.. titled SITE MODEL and see what I refer to?

I quote:

1. Select MODEL > Sitework > Site Model

The Site Model dialog box opens.

So where is the SITEWORK - Site Model command under the MODEL menu? THAT IS THE QUESTION. By the way.. I drive a 1997 Audi A6 which performs flawlessly... and its almost 6 years old now. When I go to the Audi service for a question.. I get an answer .. not an obfusgation or something about how it works in the 2002 Audi model.

I find that dismissive attitude you display for people who have purchased and earlier version of your product and a whole series of upgrades.. yet have not changed to the most current version deplorable at best. In fact, much of the reason for people NOT upgrading is because it has been demonstrated that your releases are FULL OF BUGS, CONFLICTS and represent tremendous expense to those who upgrade.. aside from the purchase price of the upgrade in lost time, crashes and chasing support... and installing "fixes".

I urge you to reconsider this approach and render the support required by your customers, regardless of their age, their level of expertise, or the version of your product which they purchased.

[ 01-06-2003, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: defjef ]

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

We are far from loathe to offer support. We offer 18 months of free technical support for our products. Our currently shipping version is 10.0.1. It has been more than 18 months (more like 22) since we sold VW 8.5.2 or VWA 1.0.1. I'm not saying that you won't or can't receive tech support on these products, (try calling TS and see,) but nonetheless I feel justified in encouraging any user to "get current" as regards his version.

In the auto business, when a problem is significant enough, the auto manufacturer offers a free recall. In the software business, we offer maintenance upgrades.

Not all automotive problems are so deemed nor so solved. If you don't like the way your 1997 Audi handles in a certain situation, that doesn't mean your dealer should upgrade you to the 2003 handling package. A car represents a high level of capital expense relative to a piece of software, so an automotive advisor won't necessarily advise you to trade up if you don't like the performance of your model vs. the newer model. It's worth noting that some people choose to "upgrade" (i.e. trade-up) their autos on a fairly frequent basis anyway, and leasing programs are made for these people.

Software is a different business model. We have, if not the best, one of the best technical support policies in the business, and there's no reason to apologise for it. And, despite a certain rhetorical attraction for it (I'm reminded of the Neal Stephenson essay that compared computer operating systems to makes of car - I remember he compared BEos to Batmobiles!) I'm not going to continue comparing one industry (autos) to another (software) because it's largely meaningless.

That all said, I have just gone back and checked my VectorWorks 852 / VWA 101 installation, and I've confirmed that, in that version of the software, there is no Site Model... command. So I'm guessing that you have a manual for a later version of the software than you have software. Please re-check your installation.

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Jeff,

Just go to the DTM menu in the DTM workspace and click on New DTM.

I don't have Arch101 installed on my computer, so I don't know how to get there from Arch, but if there is a DTM menu in ARCH, I am sure there is a "new DTM" there as well.

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I loaded all the DTM commands into my custom workspace - an alternative to changing workspaces. My 8.5 manual had the correct instructions for use of DTM, maybe defjef's is defective. Is the manual available online?

BTW, I am one of those who, despite being appreciative of the new features in versions 9 and 10, think that 8.5.2 was the most stable and trouble-free version ever issued. On balance, at the moment, despite paying for upgrades, I still use version 8 because I can get work done. So kudos for maintaining some support for version 8, it's my only consolation for having spent the money on upgrades I can't use reliably.

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Robert.... I understand that a software company and an automotive one are vastly different animals. My point was that the manual I have and the software dont seem to "consistant". Yes I did change workspaces to DTM... and NO there is no SIte Model Command. And Katie.. YES I tried New DTM and again NO there was no site model command. What I tried to do was use the grid entry system to elnter elevations on a test grid. I understood that once all the point were entered... I could ten use the Site model command to take the next steps to create a site model. But no matter how I try I cannot find that command. Of course I may have something off here... but it is the same on both the MAC and PC version I work on in 8.52.

If someone can direct me to a manual.. perhaps online which properly describes how I can use this feature, I would be most grateful. If they can't... I must assume that the command is missing and the DTM can't work... at least with the grid entry approach. As far as creating 2D polygons.. I have not started a DTM with this approach. Can I assume that the Site Model dialog box would appear if I used THAT approach?

thanks

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

The reason, defjef, that you are having problems is that you are using VW 852 / VWA 101 and you have a manual for VWA 9. So your manual is documenting a later version of the software than you possess. Rest assured that there is no "Site Model" command in the version of the software you have. You will have to use the "New DTM" command, which does exist both in the DTM and the VW Architect workspaces. However, the approach to creating DTMs is quite different between VW8.x and VWA9.x. So the manual you have will be of little use.

How did this situation come about -- did you borrow this manual from someone? Did you lose the manual that originally shipped with VWA?

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Jeff,

You are not going to see Site Model in VW 8. That's why I said to go to new model.

When you go to New Model under teh DTM menu, that will get you to where you need to be to generate the model given you have 3d polys with various z heights.

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Robert... The manuals I have are from products I legally purchased from Diehl or whomever owned the company at the time... of course. Unfortunately, the VERSION of the software for which the manual was written is not clearly stated. I bought 9.0 as soon as it shipped.. used it for a while and decided I did not want it and I thought I returned everything. I did receive a credit on my VISA. I may have returned the wrong manual and that may explain what you surmise is that I a referring to the manual for 9.0 and using 8.52... with an 8 Architect manual

Whomever was the genius who did the MANUAL DESIGN seems averse to identifying what version of the software the manual is written for.

I do recall... corrent me if I am wrong... that 8 was the release where you had an ARCHITECT module "workspace" which came on a separate disc and had a separate manual which is on my desk and titled Vectorworks Architect (user's guide). Now... this may very well be the 9.0 Architect Manual ... BUT I CAN"T TELL. It is the manual I tried to used when I attempted to do a DTM.

I am self taught on VW.... which is a testament to the people who made the program so intuitive and user friendly... most of it. I occassionally open up the manual to learn something new... and that is how I fell into the DTM hole.

However... If I have the 9.0 manual... I no longer have an 8.0 ARCHITECT manual as I must have returned that one. However... I am not convinced that this here manual is the 9.0 one... yet. HOW can i definitely detrmine which manual I have?

I blame this confusion on the User manual designers/editor/authors and their blind spot to CLEARLY identify what VERSION of the software the manual is intended for. How can the editor make this mistake?

Who DOES the technical writing for your manuals? There ARE professionals who skilled technical writers and does this properly..... I know ... you are a software company and write code and not manuals...

If you want a referral to an excellent technical writer let me know... it's not me.. that's for sure. BTW.. give Katie a raise.. she is top at what she does... and you guys can bless your lucky stars you have such a competant person as she on board!

[ 01-07-2003, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: defjef ]

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