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Railing/Fence confusion 3D Line Mode


Tom W.

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Can anybody help? I'm using the Railing/Fence tool on a site model in '3D Line Mode'. But 9 times out of 10 the Railing/Fence object is being created at Z=0, not on the surface of the site model. The cursor snaps to the contours fine but the fence when it's created is horizontal on the ground plane + the 'Height Point 1' + 'Height Point 2' parameters in the O.I.P. are both 0.

 

The one exception to this behaviour is ONE particular saved Railing/Fence symbol I have which WILL create on the site model but ALL my other symbols + all the VW ones in the library I've tried won't.

 

I was using VW2020 + even upgraded to VW2021 in the hope it was a bug but the behaviour's exactly the same in 2021. I've seen a couple of posts about this happening to other people but no real info on why or what can be done about it...

 

Any ideas? @Matt Panzer @jeff prince? Many thanks. I've spent several days getting to know the tool + really like it so bit of a bummer to right at the end come up against this...

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I just tried this (in VW2021), on one of my existing models. Hadn't tried directly drawing fences in 3d before (I have tended to draw them in plan view then manually adjust Z values).

 

When I tried with a couple of my already set up custom fence/railings, it seemed to work fine.

 

However - if I then select one of the standard types from the VW libraries ("fence flat horz metric") I get the same result as @Tom W. I can snap to the contours but it draws it at z=0 on the ground plane.

Edited by line-weight
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Thank you @Matt Panzer so what was the problem as you saw it exactly? For me the tool is behaving completely erratically. Some fences will draw at the correct elevations + some won't, with no discernible pattern why. In order to get a certain fence to display correctly I first have to draw it using a different fence - one of the ones which is behaving - then change it afterwards in the settings to the one I actually want.

 

Having got a fence to behave in this way I can then use Create Similar Object to draw more of the same fence at the correct elevations.

875363923_Screenshot2021-04-19at17_46_06.thumb.png.b712a2f26bde74cc163edf613863b182.png

 

I am also getting wierd things with the symbol selection in the General pane of the Railing/Fence Settings. The preview is meant to be showing right iso + it actually shows front. I choose back + it shows left iso. etc...

 

This is in VW2021. In VW2020 it's even worse!:

362864203_Screenshot2021-04-19at17_52_09.thumb.png.fe5adc850a6c627bb3f8ef7f2bf7903c.png

 

Thanks for looking at it

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
4 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Thank you @Matt Panzer so what was the problem as you saw it exactly? For me the tool is behaving completely erratically. Some fences will draw at the correct elevations + some won't, with no discernible pattern why. In order to get a certain fence to display correctly I first have to draw it using a different fence - one of the ones which is behaving - then change it afterwards in the settings to the one I actually want.

 

Having got a fence to behave in this way I can then use Create Similar Object to draw more of the same fence at the correct elevations.

875363923_Screenshot2021-04-19at17_46_06.thumb.png.b712a2f26bde74cc163edf613863b182.png

 

I am also getting wierd things with the symbol selection in the General pane of the Railing/Fence Settings. The preview is meant to be showing right iso + it actually shows front. I choose back + it shows left iso. etc...

 

This is in VW2021. In VW2020 it's even worse!:

362864203_Screenshot2021-04-19at17_52_09.thumb.png.fe5adc850a6c627bb3f8ef7f2bf7903c.png

 

Thanks for looking at it

 

The problem I'm seeing is that the tool works correctly when I first use it during a Vectorworks session until I select a configuration from the resource popup in the tool mode bar.  Once I do that, the object is always on the design layer plane.  Restarting Vectorworks seems to fix the issue until I select another configuration from the resource popup.

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  • 2 months later...
On 4/19/2021 at 7:03 PM, Matt Panzer said:

 

The problem I'm seeing is that the tool works correctly when I first use it during a Vectorworks session until I select a configuration from the resource popup in the tool mode bar.  Once I do that, the object is always on the design layer plane.  Restarting Vectorworks seems to fix the issue until I select another configuration from the resource popup.


Yes, I have also been experiencing this issue...with some similar issues, though I was sometimes able to select other fence symbols and have them align properly....but sometimes not. Even from restart, if I select a particular symbol before I start drawing it seems to not draw at the correct z height.

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It's strange because I've been using the Railing/Fence tool a lot on a current project + it's been working fine in 3D on this occasion... 

It's quite a slow process though. Draw 2D line in Top/Plan; convert to 3D Poly + send to surface of site model; draw 3D fence along the 3D Poly; delete 3D Poly.

Where the topography requires it you have to draw the fence in different sections, stopping + starting at each change in slope, setting the new section to not start with a post + for the frame to extend beyond the first post in order to create a continuous run of fencing. Be much better if VW would let me just click click click at each change in slope + have the fence be a single object rather than separate sections.

Perhaps I'm missing something + there's a more streamlined way I could be doing this.

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14 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Be much better if VW would let me just click click click at each change in slope + have the fence be a single object rather than separate sections.

 

 

Agree here. I am hoping something is in the works for this, as it is indeed a bit of a cumbersome and glitchy process at the moment.

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And in my case my fence is made up of two different fences - one just for the posts + another for the rails + pickets, in order to have it resemble something you'd see in the real world - so I'm having to do everything twice! Looks great in the end but a strange state of affairs when I can draw the houses more quickly than the time it takes to draw the fences around the gardens... 😄

Add to this the fact I've had to create a separate hybrid symbol for the gates...

And if anything needs to change position I'm essentially back to square one... 😪

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
On 7/2/2021 at 1:35 PM, bob cleaver said:

@Matt Panzer Your creativity and knowledge of VW is needed to assist with a workflow using the fence tool -

1. reduce the current multiple fence symbols to allow for post and stringer/panel offsets

2. smooth the layout in 3D 

3. having a gate feature 

 

Hi Bob,

Unfortunately, I don't have any other tricks from the ones being discussed here.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...

Unfortunately in VW2022 things seem to be just as bad if not worse with the Railing/Fence Tool. Now I draw a fence in 3D Line Mode on my site model + the fence seems to be drawn at the correct Point 1 + Point 2 heights which is good to see. HOWEVER: for some extremely bizarre reason the fence ends up many miles away close to the User Origin, not on the site model where it was drawn.

 

1633408799_Screenshot2021-12-29at07_35_44.thumb.png.edbeb46f0c5bdefc739cf69c9a5edc8a.png

 

Unhappy geometry on site model as a consequence:

 

1163541997_Screenshot2021-12-29at07_42_33.thumb.png.3b1a1926eebe8f2b58407155c716fb66.png

 

So I have to draw the fence in Top/Plan view, then send it to the surface, then manually adjust the Point 1 + Point 2 heights to get it positioned where I want it. Previously in VW2021, in spite of the issues described at the start of this thread, I was able to draw fences in 3D view directly onto the site model + whilst it was a pain having to draw each run of the fence as a separate object, it was much less of a pain than it is now in VW2022.

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The fence tool is potentially a terrific solution and the concept of a fence tool is fantastic -

I hope the VW group (perhaps having Matt Panzer as an inside leader) can address these issues and make the tool more valuable to users.  
There are many posts on best practices for the tool made by users and it would be great to have the tool function and expand as requested.

With the new year here, it would be great to have VW put this on their list of goals.

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For me the Fence Tool was already offset when I tried to draw in a 3D ISO.

AFAIK I needed to redraw in Top Plan only (?)

(That was VW 2022 SP0 or 1)

 

And I did not really manage to have its posts where I need them.

I gave up on Railing Tool as soon as I had a "reasonably" looking solution.

 

I thought about using the Curtain Wall Tool instead, later if needed.

I think it would give me a bit more control, as it seems to got better during

the last 5 years or so.

Not sure if (Curtain) Walls could follow the DTM's Z height in your case.

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11 hours ago, Tom W. said:

fence ends up many miles away close to the User Origin, not on the site model where it was drawn.

 

 

Would such a workaround work for you ? :

 

- temporarily set User Origin back to Internal Origin

- draw Fence

- switch User Origin back by activating (User origin Geolocated)

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37 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

 

Would such a workaround work for you ? :

 

- temporarily set User Origin back to Internal Origin

- draw Fence

- switch User Origin back by activating (User origin Geolocated)

 

Yes this works good suggestion! And is really no more inconvenient than many of the other workarounds I employ on a regular basis 😂

 

I have never used the Curtain Wall Tool but I keep meaning to explore it...

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I am not so familiar with or sceptic about using/manipulating  the VW User Origin.

But I have seen that the German VW localization has a Panel, like our custom

Work Plane Panel, where they can switch fast between different User Origins !

 

So User Origin at Geolocation Center to work along your Building Axes (rulers)

and temporarily switching to User Origin for geolocation - for Exports.

 

(While I do not really get this 2nd option, as i prefer Geolocation Center at 0,0,0.

As even for DWG exports, it does geometry center same AND seems to get in

Geolocation too !)

Edited by zoomer
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/29/2021 at 7:27 PM, bob cleaver said:

The fence tool is potentially a terrific solution and the concept of a fence tool is fantastic -

I hope the VW group (perhaps having Matt Panzer as an inside leader) can address these issues and make the tool more valuable to users.  
There are many posts on best practices for the tool made by users and it would be great to have the tool function and expand as requested.

With the new year here, it would be great to have VW put this on their list of goals.


Agree 100%. 

The tool is close, but still very awkward to use practically without a ton of point by point editing for correct 3d, or with inconsistencies in how segments are joined (or not joined as often is the case...) and placed as walls slope and step downwards (eg. flights of stairs).

 

Easy to complain, but am hoping this tool gets a bit more polish as along with the expected developments of a curb tool, this will be that much closer to having most of the fundamentals covered in a good way. 


 

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