Log cabins - hints needed!

[Petri Sakkinen]

I never thought I would do a log construction, but life is strange indeed.

Can anyone give hints of the best modeling approach? I'm afraid I need line drawing type elevations as well as rendered images.

I am thinking of writing a PIO, but I'd rather not as I hope this won't happen again so other techniques are preferable. It is not a huge project - some 350 sqm gross floor area - and I don't need to worry about working drawings as an old-fashioned drawingboard person will be engaged to do those.

[CipesDesign]

Interesting! Here's what I would do: Make a log from an extruded circle of the appropriate diameter. Color or texture it (maybe with a light wood-ish texture). Then in alternating plan & front views you can duplicate, rotate 90?. move up and stretch longer or shorter for the first and second course of logs. Don't worry about the notches or overlaps as these ought to appear OK just by superimposing logs on one another. Then select and group and duplicate for the rest of the wall height. For a real 3-d model you will need to stop and start the logs at door & window openings, but for simple frontal views you could probably get away with just placing doors & windows in front. On the other hand you might check the Texture suppliers to see if they have "log".Let me know how this progresses!!! PLC

[Petri Sakkinen]

PLC, Chris,

Thanks for the hints. You verified my worst fear: that there is no easy way.

Well, this morning I wrote a crude log wall PIO which may eventually find its way to VectorDepot.

As comes to window openings, a PIO can be used in a solid subtraction to punch a hole in the log wall. The 2D view is lost, of course, but is 'recoverable' by ungrouping, so I can produce reasonable plans & elevations/perspectives, from two separate layers (not really an ideal 'design' solution. but I can live it for one project.)

Fortunately, I don't need much detail. Basic round logs, although theoretically unsatisfactory, are fine for this exercise. Having a real log profile with all the details (don't ask more - I haven't done a log building in 25 years and the last ones were in a different language! No idea what the things are acalled in English!) appears to be quite an exercise.

Oddly enough, on the VectorScript mailing list, someone today wanted hints on using components of a symbol definition to be used in a PIO - which was what I thought to use to get a better representation of the log profile.

[CipesDesign]

Petri, Sounds like you're having fun now! That's why they pay us, no? You may want to consider posting your log PIO on VectorDepot, a trading post of sorts for VW users... PLC

[Garry Dreger]

A simple solution?In theory at least. First draw the walls using the wall tool. "install" and record sizes & positions of doors and windows. Centre the logs over the walls[which must be narrow enough to not show thru the logs]: then use the Subtract Solids tool to reveal the doors and windows. Comments?

[Garry Dreger]

In theory------Unfortunately, It is not possible to combine Extruded circles [logs] into a solid; the"Add solid" tool. The subtract solid tool won't work as a simple solution.Back to the drawing board, which is where I do my log house renderings.

[Andrew Bell@NV]

quote:

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Originally posted by Garry Dreger:

In theory------Unfortunately, It is not possible to combine Extruded circles [logs] into a solid; the"Add solid" tool.

---

Why not? I have not heard of any problems adding extruded circles together.

You probably actually want to extrude a circle whose top and bottom have been flattened, rather than a true circle.

[Garry Dreger]

Official or not, you're right. I've just now tried to make a hole in a log wall using my original idea,[ adding and subtract ing solids],and it worked. What I was doing wrong before, I'll never know.

So, the "simple" solution will work. The major drawback of this method is when changing the locations or deleting doors and windows,you would be left with a hole in the wall, which I suppose would require replacing the whole wall and starting over. Not a simple solution.

I have posted a "wish" for the addition of a couple of new "wall styles".

Thanks Andrew, for your input. Nothing like someone who knows what they're doing.I am still in the " trying to know " stage.

[tmadsign]

Unless you have a better way to deal with all of the line segments and memory associated with rendering and hidden line removal, extruding polygons versus circles might save you some time & headaches.

[Lisar]

Anyone have any "how-to's" on how log cabin walls would be done with VW2020?  Possibly simpler than discussed above.  Any suggestions for videos to watch or manuals to review? Thanks in advance.

[bcd]

Ok - a little nerdy but this should get you close.

 

Draw Walls

Model the walls as unstyled walls full width of the logs. eg 8"

Insert doors & windows etc as normal

 

Create Logs

AEC>Framing>Wall Framing

Create a new Framing Lumber eg 8" x 8"

Set the Sheet Stock Height to eg 8.5" this will give a .5" horizontal gap

Now you can delete the unnecessary studs & plates - Push/Pull the logs at the corners to suit.

3d Modelling Toolset>Fillet edge - eg 4"

Select Edges to round your logs.

 

Duplicate doors & windows so you can turn off walls.

With Wall Insertion mode turned off select all doors and windows, Copy, Paste In Place

Set the class of the walls to be invisible.

 

[Lisar]

Thank you for your reply.  Unfortunately, I only have Landmark and I don't have the framing tool so will be looking for a work around. Was hoping to be able to clip the windows and doors through a log symbol but that doesn't seem to work. Also tried creating the logs with the wall projection tool but that won't allow me to extend the logs the full length of the walls and beyond.

[rDesign]

On 5/5/2002 at 6:42 PM, Garry Dreger said:

A simple solution?In theory at least. First draw the walls using the wall tool. "install" and record sizes & positions of doors and windows. Centre the logs over the walls[which must be narrow enough to not show thru the logs]: then use the Subtract Solids tool to reveal the doors and windows. Comments?

Until Vw gets Stacked Wall Components (rumored to be in the development pipeline, but not as part of the upcoming Vw2021, so who knows when), I think the above “simple” solution from 2002 is the current, best approach.
 

You can start with a log symbol to make things easier, but when you want to make the holes for Doors / Windows with the Subtract Solids command you’ll need to convert the log symbols to a group first. Then direct model the ends of the logs with the Push / Pull tool as needed.

[Lisar]

Thanks rDesign. I used the framing member tool instead of the symbol option to make my log and then followed the above.  I was not able to use the window itself to subtract solids with for some reason.  I had to make a cutout sized to the window and use that. Also was not able to group a stack of logs and use the subtract solids tool.  Wondering if either of these things is a glitch in my system or a flaw in my steps.  Either way, I did get something to work though more time consuming than I'd hoped for.  

[jmanganelli]

This sounds like a perfect application for marionette. 

[Joe-SA]

We recently did a series of log houses constructed with half-logs hung on a standard 2x8 stud wall.  We put a log texture on the face of a 5" thick exterior component.  We had to offset the side elevation texture to account for the lapping of the logs as they turned the corners.  Custom corner log symbols showed the full round ends of the logs while other elements like log brackets and fully modeled gable log trusses assisted in hiding the lack of depth in the wall texture.  We used window and door symbols with custom hole cuts and splayed edges to achieve the log recess.   We had to 2D mask overlay the flat faced wall in the details with actual half log profiles.  This wasn't perfect if your intent is photo-realism but it worked very well for CD production with model generated elevations.

[Mitchell (the other one)]

11 hours ago, Joe-SA said:

We recently did a series of log houses constructed with half-logs hung on a standard 2x8 stud wall.  We put a log texture on the face of a 5" thick exterior component.  We had to offset the side elevation texture to account for the lapping of the logs as they turned the corners.  Custom corner log symbols showed the full round ends of the logs while other elements like log brackets and fully modeled gable log trusses assisted in hiding the lack of depth in the wall texture.  

 

   If you don't mind sharing a few images, I'd love to see how this turned out.

[Joe-SA]

12 hours ago, Mitchell (the other one) said:

 

   If you don't mind sharing a few images, I'd love to see how this turned out.

Tight construction schedule and no need for a finished 3D presentation led to a lack of finesse in the model.  With more fine tuning and maybe some displacement mapping the 3D could have been improved.  This was done in VW2016.  Computing speeds and VW's memory management were quite a bit different at that time. 

[Matt Panzer]

I'm chiming in a little late on this, but I have a pretty cool solution you might want to try.  🙂 

The idea is to create a symbol with 2D and 3D loci (to allow selection of the instances) and wall hole hole geometry that cuts out the log shapes from the wall.

 

Log Cabin Wall Log Cutter Symbol v2020.vwx

[zoomer]

Matt, I'm impressed.

 

I think that is something between very creative use of VW and genius !

[Matt Panzer]

7 minutes ago, zoomer said:

Matt, I'm impressed.

 

I think that is something between very creative use of VW and genius !

 

Thanks @zoomer !

 

I should've mentioned that you probably want another version of the log cutter symbol with the extrude offset 4" down to use in every other wall.  That will get the logs interlocking each other. You could also use the same symbol but will need to change its Z height in every other wall: 

 

 

You can do some pretty cool things with wall holes in symbols.  They're great for creating reveals in walls as well.  The nice thing about them is that the hole geometry will cut the walls all the way to the ends (even when walls L-join).

[zoomer]

So as there are no slanted Walls,

one could work with a very thick Wall and cutting Geometry.

Windows a inserted (rotated) Symbols to make them following the Wall slope, .....

 

Would be a bit laborious with rounded Walls though.

Not to mention Walls that should follow B-Splines 🙂

[Matt Panzer]

2 hours ago, zoomer said:

So as there are no slanted Walls,

one could work with a very thick Wall and cutting Geometry.

Windows a inserted (rotated) Symbols to make them following the Wall slope, .....

Certainly a possibility!  I’m thinking wall joins could get hairy though. 😉 

 

2 hours ago, zoomer said:

Would be a bit laborious with rounded Walls though.

 

True, But still a possibility!

 

2 hours ago, zoomer said:

Not to mention Walls that should follow B-Splines 🙂

 

Well now you’re putting the cart before the horse!  😛 

[JMR]

Wow...since wall hole functionality is used here, I take it that walls remain wall objects? They are not converted to generic solids etc.?

 

Ok the video answered my question. Excellent.

Edited October 11, 2020 by JMR

[JMR]

This method can be used to create walls of eg. historical buildings so that they remain editable, btw.