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Landscape Area Alignment/3d Geometry


Poot

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Hi everyone,

There have been several issues with Landscape Areas aligning to a site model, but I have not found a post with this specific issue. I can project a texture onto the site model from landscape areas, and the 3d landscape areas align pretty well with the site model for the most part, except for some areas where they just decide to randomly skew their geometry, or pop above the surface.   This is a basic test file, with a simple site model and no site modifiers or other elements.  Asides from these few quirks, the results are good enough.

 

 

image.thumb.png.e4953fc8f8cb2c4324367acdbea06788.pngimage.thumb.png.288a46dfcfa12fc084087c14def75687.png

image.thumb.png.593b6dc46aac69b1012e593eebde968a.png

 

 

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

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Have you tried looking at your site model in left, right or bottom views?  I find most of my first site models have a few stray points that affect results at first, and using other views usually highlights those, if any exist.  They don't show up as conflicts, because they aren't, but sometimes a stake or partial contour gets left well above or below the mesh surface.

 

Also, sometimes we have tried elevating the landscape area +0.1 or so above the surface, which helps it not be pierced by any ridges sharper than the landscape area might cover.  Would be interested in other responses, as I may have misinterpreted your intent here.

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I just tried changing them to align to proposed site model, also with mixed results to the contours of the site. As far as I understand, landscape areas aren't site modifiers, so I'm not sure why they would be altering the contours....

image.thumb.png.ad6ba897fc7c6ce7f07c029c03891d18.png

 

These other areas improved with using the proposed model approach.

image.thumb.png.9697787af5c7fc83cb88672ce817e7fb.png

And unlike applying the LA to existing areas, I also get a new problem with one of the areas not coming up to the surface (updated site model, sent to surface, etc) though others which went back to 0 did send to surface properly.

image.thumb.png.b5ca13ed3036c1cbd61772445ca09415.png

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9 minutes ago, Rossford said:

Have you tried looking at your site model in left, right or bottom views?  I find most of my first site models have a few stray points that affect results at first, and using other views usually highlights those, if any exist.  They don't show up as conflicts, because they aren't, but sometimes a stake or partial contour gets left well above or below the mesh surface.

 

Also, sometimes we have tried elevating the landscape area +0.1 or so above the surface, which helps it not be pierced by any ridges sharper than the landscape area might cover.  Would be interested in other responses, as I may have misinterpreted your intent here.

 

I just want the landscape areas to fit into the terrain, and the site model is generated from clean contours (see below). I will try elevating the landscape area with a component which sits above the surface a slight amount.

image.thumb.png.fc39e0ca0effb1eaf523278bcda58315.png

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On the photo above, I see a cross in just about the area that the landscape area doesn't meet the model. Any chance that is a stray stake?  Also, hard to tell from the isometric view, but the 4 contours on that side of the retaining edge look like they might cross.  They don't necessarily look like the similar 4 contours on the cutout further right on the page.  Just guessing, trying to help.

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4 minutes ago, Rossford said:

On the photo above, I see a cross in just about the area that the landscape area doesn't meet the model. Any chance that is a stray stake?  Also, hard to tell from the isometric view, but the 4 contours on that side of the retaining edge look like they might cross.  They don't necessarily look like the similar 4 contours on the cutout further right on the page.  Just guessing, trying to help.

 

Appreciate the input!  That cross is just the centre page mark.  I'm just a bit confused as I thought landscape areas shouldn't affect the site model beyond their component features, but maybe something else is going on. In any event, it is weird to get the errors below, while most everything else works perfectly to match the site model.

 

image.thumb.png.f51e000b34ca7b17d261c8744be363a7.png

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Yes, it looks like my gremlins went to visit you, LOL.  Finding those geometry quirks are needle in haystack type operations.  What version do you have?  I haven't played with the alter surface mesh modeling tool in VW 2021 much, but maybe this is a possible way to adjust the surface. 

 

I take it your basic site model with smoothed mesh is just "standard" VW green?  Sometimes, we leave the lawn areas with no Landscape Area and just do the roads, etc., that may take out some of the problems?

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On 3/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, Rossford said:

Yes, it looks like my gremlins went to visit you, LOL.  Finding those geometry quirks are needle in haystack type operations.  What version do you have?  I haven't played with the alter surface mesh modeling tool in VW 2021 much, but maybe this is a possible way to adjust the surface. 

 

I take it your basic site model with smoothed mesh is just "standard" VW green?  Sometimes, we leave the lawn areas with no Landscape Area and just do the roads, etc., that may take out some of the problems?


Using VW2021, and the site model itself displays just fine otherwise....so that part goes fairly smoothly.  Just seems like it should be fairly straightforward to apply the landscape areas to the site model (as advertised for VW functionality....).  This is just a test file, so its also not very complicated, and there are no other elements I'm working with so was hoping it would go pretty smoothly.

Doing planting plans with quantities was what I was hoping to start rolling out across my office - so doing simple landscape areas is pretty key for that since lawn/grass areas are a part of that. Can do it completely 2D of course, but seems like this issue should have been ironed out.

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I still have this issue....and there doesn't seem to be any geometry issues that I can tell...but maybe someone else has a better idea of the root cause?  


I've attached a copy of a file with the site model, and the geometry of the areas which can be converted to landscape areas. Maybe someone can see if they get the same results?


This is what seems to happen with the contours when I try with just one of the landscape areas:
EXISTING                                                                                                                                       
image.thumb.png.c1044e8061843f2668216b6e6b859f7c.png

 

PROPOSED

image.thumb.png.6bde65d1809df0e1bf368455005700c1.png

 

I understood that landscape areas should more or less follow the surface of the site model, and not work as major site modifiers as seems to be the case here. Maybe I am doing something wrong along the way?

Landscape Area 3D Test.vwx

Edited by Poot
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
1 hour ago, Poot said:

I still have this issue....and there doesn't seem to be any geometry issues that I can tell...but maybe someone else has a better idea of the root cause?  


I've attached a copy of a file with the site model, and the geometry of the areas which can be converted to landscape areas. Maybe someone can see if they get the same results?


This is what seems to happen with the contours when I try with just one of the landscape areas:
EXISTING                                                                                                                                       
image.thumb.png.c1044e8061843f2668216b6e6b859f7c.png

 

PROPOSED

image.thumb.png.6bde65d1809df0e1bf368455005700c1.png

 

I understood that landscape areas should more or less follow the surface of the site model, and not work as major site modifiers as seems to be the case here. Maybe I am doing something wrong along the way?

Landscape Area 3D Test.vwx

Thanks for sharing the file, @Poot as that helps with determining the issue. I see what the problem is. "Site-DTM-Modifier" class is a special class where geometry that's created on this class will turn it into a site modifier for the proposed site model. This is great when you want to use 3D Polygons, NURBS, and 3D Locus to modify the site model differently than what's possible with other tools (site modifiers, hardscapes, landscape areas).

 

Since your source data on Design Layer "Source Contours copy" is on "DTM-Site-Modifier" class they are acting like a modifier for the proposed site model. In the site model settings you are telling the site model to listen to ALL DESIGN LAYERS. You can either deselect this design layer so the site model does not listen to it or put your source data on any other class than "DTM-Site-Modifier".

Screen Shot 2021-03-18 at 12.58.31 PM.png

Hope this helps!

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19 minutes ago, Tony Kostreski said:

Since your source data on Design Layer "Source Contours copy" is on "DTM-Site-Modifier" class they are acting like a modifier for the proposed site model. In the site model settings you are telling the site model to listen to ALL DESIGN LAYERS. You can either deselect this design layer so the site model does not listen to it or put your source data on any other class than "DTM-Site-Modifier".

 

Hope this helps!

 

Thank you @Tony Kostreski!  I had realized that something was happening, since the proposed site model was changing and I couldn't figure out why.  Works like a charm now!

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