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Migrating vw2018>2021: section problems

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So, I am preparing to drag myself and various drawings from VW2018 to 2021. Immediately on a test run I am seeing various problems with the way sections have imported. I'd be grateful if anyone can let me know how many of these are known problems/easy fixes:

 

1. Some of my sections seem to have shifted. There's nothing in the viewport, but if I crop out, I find that the section is there, outside the crop box, and rotated. Both of the sections I've found where this has happened are neither vertical nor horizontal (they are cut perpendicular to a slopnig roof pitch).

 

2. What were called "section-elevation markers" in VW2018 now seem to be called "section-elevation lines" and the text is displaced from the bubbles. Am I best just to redraw them? They are not linked to viewports, just ones I've drawn manually.

 

3. Why have all my section line thicknesses changed? I have my sections set up as "separate cross sections" and "use attributes of original objects". So, cut line thickness is determined by the class the object is in. Has something changed here? What were previously thick lines are now all thin lines. For example, I tend to use 0.35 as my "cut line" thickness but to get something looking like that it appears that I have to go and change all my class settings from 0.35 to 1.00. Why is this?

 

4. Does the "Zoom line thickness" toggle now work differently? If I turn it 'on' then it seems to work as predicted for things in annotations, but not for lines in the section viewport itself. For example, those lines where I've set the class attribute of the sectioned object to 1.0 ... the thickness of those lines does not zoom, whether I have "zoom line thickness" turned on or off. Is that a bug? It leaves me unable to judge what the drawing's going to look like when I convert it to PDF.

 

5. Anything else I should watch out for?

 

 

 

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1. Yes, experienced that too.

About 1 of 4 Elevations or Sections moved inside or completely out of the Crop.

I just tediously reseted them manually.

As it weren't that many Vieports corrupt, I thought it may only be those that I created

by duplicating existing Viewports and reversing direction or such.

Not 100% sure though.

 

And I realized that I had trouble re-adjusting some Section Lines.

They behave corrupt - Geometry wise when dragging.

Like you drag one Section Line's to the left but the end will move to top instead

and such issues.

 

2.

I never got any of both concepts,  old or new ones ...

Ah, BTW,

some of my Section Marker's Texts flipped ....

 

3. 4. 5.

No clue ...

Edited by zoomer
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1 hour ago, line-weight said:

5. Anything else I should watch out for?

 

 

I think, now I really get why you want to keep your old VW installations,

you created you former projects in ...

 

😄

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2 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

 

I think, now I really get why you want to keep your old VW installations,

you created you former projects in ...

 

😄

Yeah!

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1 hour ago, line-weight said:

So, I am preparing to drag myself and various drawings from VW2018 to 2021. Immediately on a test run I am seeing various problems with the way sections have imported. I'd be grateful if anyone can let me know how many of these are known problems/easy fixes:

 

1. Some of my sections seem to have shifted. There's nothing in the viewport, but if I crop out, I find that the section is there, outside the crop box, and rotated. Both of the sections I've found where this has happened are neither vertical nor horizontal (they are cut perpendicular to a slopnig roof pitch).

 

Can you submit a bug on this with the file?

 

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

2. What were called "section-elevation markers" in VW2018 now seem to be called "section-elevation lines" and the text is displaced from the bubbles. Am I best just to redraw them? They are not linked to viewports, just ones I've drawn manually.

 

The Section-Elevation Marker object have been moved to legacy and replaced with the new Section-Elevation Line object.  These objects are stylable and user customizable.  When bringing the file into VW 2021, the legacy objects will converted to the new objects as unstyled.

From there, you can try a couple things:

1. Try selecting one of the Section-Elevation Lines and replacing its style (via the Style popup in the Object Info palette) with one from default content.  From there, you can edit the style and the style's Marker Layout as needed.  Once you happy with it, select the other Section-Elevation Line objects and replace them with the same same style.

2. OR, you could right-click on one of the Section-Elevation Lines and choose the "Create Plug-in Object Style from Unstyled Object" context command to create a style based on the selected object.   From there, you can edit the style and the style's Marker Layout as needed.  Once you happy with it, select the other Section-Elevation Line objects and replace them with the same same style.

 

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

3. Why have all my section line thicknesses changed? I have my sections set up as "separate cross sections" and "use attributes of original objects". So, cut line thickness is determined by the class the object is in. Has something changed here? What were previously thick lines are now all thin lines. For example, I tend to use 0.35 as my "cut line" thickness but to get something looking like that it appears that I have to go and change all my class settings from 0.35 to 1.00. Why is this?

 

The line of the Section-Elevation Line should be by object and directly settable in the Attributes palette.  It should use the same line attributes as the legacy object it replaced in your file.  If this is not the case, it sounds like a bug.

 

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

4. Does the "Zoom line thickness" toggle now work differently? If I turn it 'on' then it seems to work as predicted for things in annotations, but not for lines in the section viewport itself. For example, those lines where I've set the class attribute of the sectioned object to 1.0 ... the thickness of those lines does not zoom, whether I have "zoom line thickness" turned on or off. Is that a bug? It leaves me unable to judge what the drawing's going to look like when I convert it to PDF.

 

This is a known issue when Navigation Graphics is set to something other than "Best Performance".  Could you check in the Vectorworks Preferences to see if that might be the case?

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I'm also making the transition to v2021 from v2019. I noticed that the "navigate to viewport" option is no longer available when a section line is selected. Is there are way to do this in v2021?

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1 hour ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

Can you submit a bug on this with the file?

 

 

The Section-Elevation Marker object have been moved to legacy and replaced with the new Section-Elevation Line object.  These objects are stylable and user customizable.  When bringing the file into VW 2021, the legacy objects will converted to the new objects as unstyled.

From there, you can try a couple things:

1. Try selecting one of the Section-Elevation Lines and replacing its style (via the Style popup in the Object Info palette) with one from default content.  From there, you can edit the style and the style's Marker Layout as needed.  Once you happy with it, select the other Section-Elevation Line objects and replace them with the same same style.

2. OR, you could right-click on one of the Section-Elevation Lines and choose the "Create Plug-in Object Style from Unstyled Object" context command to create a style based on the selected object.   From there, you can edit the style and the style's Marker Layout as needed.  Once you happy with it, select the other Section-Elevation Line objects and replace them with the same same style.

 

 

The line of the Section-Elevation Line should be by object and directly settable in the Attributes palette.  It should use the same line attributes as the legacy object it replaced in your file.  If this is not the case, it sounds like a bug.

 

 

This is a known issue when Navigation Graphics is set to something other than "Best Performance".  Could you check in the Vectorworks Preferences to see if that might be the case?

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Regarding the shifted sections - let me see if I can find the time to submit a bug. As an alternative could I just send the file to someone at VW directly, and they can then decide whether it should be submitted as a bug?

 

Thanks for the explanation on the section-elevation line objects...I will have more of a play with this tomorrow.

 

The line thicknesses - I think this is explained by the 'zoom line thickness' toggle not working. I couldn't switch it on, therefore I couldn't see any of the line thicknesses. As you suggested - I did have 'navigation graphics' set to something other than 'best performance'. In fact, I usually have it set to 'best performance' but had changed it to another setting earlier today whilst trying to solve some problems with jerky 3d navigation in OpenGL view (which seems to be worse in 2021 than 2018, at least on my current hardware).

 

When I changed the setting to 'best performance' the line thicknesses appeared as they should - so thank you for that. I am glad the fix for this is not something more complicated.

 

I have to say, having got the line thicknesses back, it's a little disappointing to see that zooming in and out is more erratic and less smooth in 2021 than in 2018. Again - on my current hardware at least.

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2 hours ago, Boh said:

I'm also making the transition to v2021 from v2019. I noticed that the "navigate to viewport" option is no longer available when a section line is selected. Is there are way to do this in v2021?

 

I've just checked and it does seem to give me that option in 2021.

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1 hour ago, line-weight said:
3 hours ago, Boh said:

I'm also making the transition to v2021 from v2019. I noticed that the "navigate to viewport" option is no longer available when a section line is selected. Is there are way to do this in v2021?

 

I've just checked and it does seem to give me that option in 2021.

So looking closer it seems that if you use the "Create section viewport" command from the View menu then all works as normal and you can navigate to the VP from the section lines. However if you draw a section line first using the Section-Elevation Line tool then in the OIP you click on "Create a section viewport..." you get a section viewport but you don't get the option to navigate to the vp from the section line. I don't quite understand the logic of that.

 

EDIT: On further investigation I've just realised running a custom script which renames viewports is causing section lines to lose the functionality to navigate back to the section viewport. So the above isn't quite correct. I.e. you can indeed "Create a Section Viewport" from an already drawn section line and the section lines does have the ability to navigate to the section vp. It's running the script which makes it lose this navigation function.

Edited by Boh
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Well my first project on v2021 was originally started in v2019 however I wanted to work with a fresh v2021 file (perhaps to avoid some of the export issues you might be encountering?)

 

So instead of simply opening the v2019 in v2021 and carrying on I went to the trouble of creating a fresh v2021 file from a new v2021 project template (itself created from a fresh blank v2021 file).

 

I then went and imported as much as I could into this file from the v2019 file. I had to create all the sheet layer items from scratch which took some time as SLVP's are no longer transferable between files in v2021. I also had to update all the drawing labels, grid lines, reference makers and section lines to the new plug-in style versions. Something which I think you would have to do anyway. I think these updated tools alone are a big improvement over previous versions.

 

So far it is going ok but I'm really just getting started. I think v2021 is faster. The new grid lines are taking some getting used to. Biggest downside in my view so far is not being able to copy sheet layer vp's between files as already mentioned and now this little issue with navigation from section lines.

 

I haven't noticed any of the issues from your orig post but I'll keep you posted. 😊

 

Cheers

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14 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

The Section-Elevation Marker object have been moved to legacy and replaced with the new Section-Elevation Line object.  These objects are stylable and user customizable.  When bringing the file into VW 2021, the legacy objects will converted to the new objects as unstyled.

From there, you can try a couple things:

1. Try selecting one of the Section-Elevation Lines and replacing its style (via the Style popup in the Object Info palette) with one from default content.  From there, you can edit the style and the style's Marker Layout as needed.  Once you happy with it, select the other Section-Elevation Line objects and replace them with the same same style.

2. OR, you could right-click on one of the Section-Elevation Lines and choose the "Create Plug-in Object Style from Unstyled Object" context command to create a style based on the selected object.   From there, you can edit the style and the style's Marker Layout as needed.  Once you happy with it, select the other Section-Elevation Line objects and replace them with the same same style.

 

returning to this:

1. seems to work; it sorts out the displaced text (although the marker line ends up in the wrong place). I can just create my desired style and then apply it to all of the markers, and relocate them. A bit tedious but it works, and it looks like the new objects are better behaved than the old ones (which were always really awkward to resize).

 

2. doesn't seem to work for me. it takes me to a dialogue "select folder". I choose the folder - then nothing happens. Anyway, I can live with method 1.

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16 hours ago, zoomer said:

1. Yes, experienced that too.

About 1 of 4 Elevations or Sections moved inside or completely out of the Crop.

I just tediously reseted them manually.

As it weren't that many Vieports corrupt, I thought it may only be those that I created

by duplicating existing Viewports and reversing direction or such.

Not 100% sure though.

 

 

 

I've now gone through several drawing files. In the end, it was only two viewports where I found this problem, and they were both ones where the section is cut at a funny angle.

 

I think I created them by duplicating viewports and then going to the section line and rotating it. I do remember that something odd was happening at the time.

 

But anyway the good news is that no other viewports seem to have been affected, in all the files I've checked so far.

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15 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

Can you submit a bug on this with the file?

I've just tried a bug submit. Uploaded the file. It said upload was successful. Filled out the bug submit form and sent it. It threw me back to the same form page rather than a confirmation, so I don't know if it worked. I tried, anyway.

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14 hours ago, line-weight said:

Just to illustrate how zooming in and out on a sheet layer looks different to me in each version - 2018 seems smoother to me (the lines don't flicker between full and minimum thickness)

...

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

Were you using Best Performance Navigation Graphics in both VW 2018 and 2021 when you created the videos?

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14 hours ago, line-weight said:

Regarding the shifted sections - let me see if I can find the time to submit a bug. As an alternative could I just send the file to someone at VW directly, and they can then decide whether it should be submitted as a bug?

 

@line-weight, @zoomer,

 

If you can send me a Vectorworks file from VW 2020 or earlier and tell me which viewports shift, I can put a VB in for it.

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13 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

Were you using Best Performance Navigation Graphics in both VW 2018 and 2021 when you created the videos?

Yes, I was.

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13 hours ago, Boh said:

EDIT: On further investigation I've just realised running a custom script which renames viewports is causing section lines to lose the functionality to navigate back to the section viewport. So the above isn't quite correct. I.e. you can indeed "Create a Section Viewport" from an already drawn section line and the section lines does have the ability to navigate to the section vp. It's running the script which makes it lose this navigation function.

 

Can you send me a small file and the script that demonstrates this problem?

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2 hours ago, line-weight said:
16 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

The Section-Elevation Marker object have been moved to legacy and replaced with the new Section-Elevation Line object.  These objects are stylable and user customizable.  When bringing the file into VW 2021, the legacy objects will converted to the new objects as unstyled.

From there, you can try a couple things:

1. Try selecting one of the Section-Elevation Lines and replacing its style (via the Style popup in the Object Info palette) with one from default content.  From there, you can edit the style and the style's Marker Layout as needed.  Once you happy with it, select the other Section-Elevation Line objects and replace them with the same same style.

2. OR, you could right-click on one of the Section-Elevation Lines and choose the "Create Plug-in Object Style from Unstyled Object" context command to create a style based on the selected object.   From there, you can edit the style and the style's Marker Layout as needed.  Once you happy with it, select the other Section-Elevation Line objects and replace them with the same same style.

 

returning to this:

1. seems to work; it sorts out the displaced text (although the marker line ends up in the wrong place). I can just create my desired style and then apply it to all of the markers, and relocate them. A bit tedious but it works, and it looks like the new objects are better behaved than the old ones (which were always really awkward to resize).

 

So the actual endpoint of the section stays in the correct place, but the marker is shifted?  If so, it's probably due to the line in the marker being in a different location than the marker from the legacy object.

 

2 hours ago, line-weight said:

2. doesn't seem to work for me. it takes me to a dialogue "select folder". I choose the folder - then nothing happens. Anyway, I can live with method 1.

 

Once you choose the folder, it creates a style in the Resource Manager and that style is applied to the selected Section-Elevation Line.  From there, you can edit the style to correct the shifted text in the Marker Layout.  Once you correct that, you can apply the style to the other Section-Elevation Lines.  This method should not cause any shifting since you will using the marker layout created from the legacy object on import.

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1 hour ago, line-weight said:

I've now gone through several drawing files. In the end, it was only two viewports where I found this problem, and they were both ones where the section is cut at a funny angle.

 

I think I created them by duplicating viewports and then going to the section line and rotating it. I do remember that something odd was happening at the time.

 

But anyway the good news is that no other viewports seem to have been affected, in all the files I've checked so far.

 

OK good.  We do know of an odd case that sounds related to this.

 

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

I've just tried a bug submit. Uploaded the file. It said upload was successful. Filled out the bug submit form and sent it. It threw me back to the same form page rather than a confirmation, so I don't know if it worked. I tried, anyway.

 

Great!  Thank you!

I'll see if I can find anything on it but I think tech support needs to create an official bug report first.

Thanks again!

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18 minutes ago, line-weight said:
32 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

Thanks for the clarification.

Were you using Best Performance Navigation Graphics in both VW 2018 and 2021 when you created the videos?

Yes, I was.

 

Ok.  Thanks for confirming.

I'm looking into whether this is a bug or a consequence of more recent speed improvements we been making for navigation graphics.

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8 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

o the actual endpoint of the section stays in the correct place, but the marker is shifted?  If so, it's probably due to the line in the marker being in a different location than the marker from the legacy object.

 

First screenshot below: how it looks in VW2018

Second screenshot: how it looks after import to VW2021 (I've added the green circles just to highlight where the numbers have ended up)

Third screenshot: how it looks after I "replace" style with a default one.

 

1199456048_Screenshot2021-02-17at13_53_30.thumb.jpg.2d8d4886ae69c123c99d5f11370dc996.jpg

 

619850403_Screenshot2021-02-17at13_53_41.thumb.jpg.5781d7f15cf43dec8e45df97ff93b781.jpg

 

1637147218_Screenshot2021-02-17at13_56_01.thumb.jpg.ba64390bcd6d3e9bd4afeed24428b393.jpg

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16 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

Once you choose the folder, it creates a style in the Resource Manager and that style is applied to the selected Section-Elevation Line.  From there, you can edit the style to correct the shifted text in the Marker Layout.  Once you correct that, you can apply the style to the other Section-Elevation Lines.  This method should not cause any shifting since you will using the marker layout created from the legacy object on import.

 

Ok... for some reason this worked, when I tried it again. Not sure why it didn't before.  However the end result is the same as in the 3rd screenshot in my previous post - the marker text is now inside the marker, but the whole thing is still in the wrong position, compared to where it was in 2018.

 

 

Edited by line-weight

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2 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Ok... for some reason this worked, when I tried it again. Not sure why it didn't before.  However the end result is the same as in the 3rd screenshot in my previous post - the marker text is now inside the marker, but the whole thing is still in the wrong position, compared to where it was in 2018.

 

Can you copy the Section-Elevation Line into a new blank document and attached it so I can have a look?

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Just now, Matt Panzer said:

 

Can you copy the Section-Elevation Line into a new blank document and attached it so I can have a look?

Just the section-elevation line itself, copied straight into a design layer? From the VW2018 file, or from the VW2021 file?

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