hihosilvey Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Hello all! The new ConnectCAD is awesome!. I'm loving the changes. It gets better and better each release. In CC2021 I'm having an issue with my workflow. In older versions, I used to be able to build my entire schematic in one design layer, then when I was done, I would break out the devices into the various design layers I needed for printing. All at the end, all at once. All my Arrow connections that went to other pages would automatically be labeled correctly with the correct page # It was wonderful. It seems in 2020/2021 that isn't possible. I have to build all the devices, then make the layers I need, then do the wiring connections. Is there any way we can get that back? Sometimes after all is said and done, because of a Change Order, Etc, I have to move a device to another layer. When I move the device to a different layer, the arrow connections give an error (kudos on the warning symbol) and it causes me to have to delete all the arrow connections and rebuild, as they don't seem to like to reconnect on their own because of the layer mis-match. In the older versions this seemed to work smoother. Am I missing something? Thanks! Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Conrad Preen Posted February 16, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted February 16, 2021 Hey @hihosilvey That's an interesting way of doing things. Moving a load of circuits and devices to another layer would need the circuits to reset AFTER the devices. So for this workflow (if it's what you really need) I would suggest adding Select Similar to your workspace (see VW help for how to), select all the circuits and nudge them up and down (shift-arrow keys). That will make them re-detect their end points. Of course I'll add this to my notes for us to look at. Do you know about Sheet Layers and viewports? It seems strange to me to move stuff to another Design Layer for printing. Maybe you have your reasons and I'd definitely like to know them. If it's just for printing though you can have multiple sheet layers with viewports showing different parts of the same Design Layer - perhaps that would suit you better? Conrad Quote Link to comment
hihosilvey Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 Conrad, Thanks for the reply. I move things to different design layers and then use viewports to get them to the sheet layer I need for printing. This allows me to make sure the labels on the arrow connections flow to the correct pages for people who print the CDs out on paper. For your reference, I've attached a sample schematic that I did in an earlier version of CC. Maybe it will help you vizualize. 100%CDS_P201019_SUMMIT_BLUE RIDGE_072320_CS.pdf Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Conrad Preen Posted February 16, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted February 16, 2021 Yes it's the labels - I thought so. Nice drawing! In pdf the arrows are clickable links so that makes navigation very easy. For paper publishing, I think what you are doing is the best that can be done and it's actually good enough. Did the nudge thing work? Conrad Quote Link to comment
hihosilvey Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 The nudge thing didn't work. When I nudge the source side, it picks up the connector, but no other information. When I nudge the dest side, it doesn't do anything. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Conrad Preen Posted February 17, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted February 17, 2021 Ok, we'll have a look at it . Thanks for letting me know. Conrad Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Conrad Preen Posted February 18, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted February 18, 2021 Hi @hihosilvey I've had a play with your workflow moving selected devices and circuits between layers. You were leveraging the older implementation of arrow circuits to the full. Back in the day the destination arrow was a separate object. The horribly-named Reverse Arrow. Keeping these in sync with their Circuits was a veritable nightmare with a zillion ways to go wrong. But one thing it was better at was being moved to another layer. We re-implemented the arrow Circuit to do it all in one object that can display on more one layer. This is better in so may other respects that I lose count. But changing the layer will need arrow circuits to be re-drawn and polyline circuits to be nudged so they reset after the devices have arrived on the new layer. The actual reason for your working this way in fact has to do with the labels. So here's my question: if you had more flexibility in labeling the arrow ends would you still need to move stuff between design layers? So in your dream CAD system how would your arrow labels be? Conrad Quote Link to comment
hihosilvey Posted March 3, 2021 Author Share Posted March 3, 2021 Conrad, Sorry it's taken so long to reply. I really wanted to think about it. The whole reason that we move stuff between layers is that we have to send out paper and pdf docs to our installers. The layers are the way to split out our build in logical sections. The labels on the arrow connections that lead you to the correct page are a crucial component on a printed set. I think it's something that will be around for awhile. It's how the rest of the building industry works (architects, electrical engineers, etc.). We've had to match their workflow. I think we will always have to move things between layers. In my honest opinion, I think you guys are already the best at arrow connections. That is one of the main reasons I switched to ConnectCAD 5 or 6 years ago. Before then we were building manually in autoCAD. To have a program that automatically did that was awesome. My perfect arrow label would be this: 1.Be able to seamlessly change between layers. Learning to do it the other way by building your devices first in my opinion is not as flexible. Clients (mine at least) are notorious for adding scope to a room. From a business sense hooray, right? But from a drawing sense, that means I most of the time I have to move devices to another page for things to fit. That means I have to change the layers of those devices, which means I now have to go and redraw all those connections. It's a hard pill to swallow. I would be happy if all I had to do was nudge it at the end. If that is a work around that would be awesome. 2.Be able to customize the length and direction of the arrows on both sides of the connection. And when you edit them they stay at that length when you move a device block. Similar to a polyline connection. This seems to have gone away as well. I used to be able to lengthen both source and destination sides. Just the source side works now. 3.Be able to customize the bubble size around the label. Or make it what ever shape you wanted. Similar to the dev_labels. 4.Be able to point the "label" to be whatever you wanted it to be. Layers, viewports, detail drawings, racks, etc. I hope that all makes sense. I applaud you for asking the question. It takes guts to ask people how they like a product you've spent countless hours building. I hope I didn't offend you. Quote Link to comment
hihosilvey Posted March 3, 2021 Author Share Posted March 3, 2021 Also, I might have missed it, but is there a document that shows the workflow the way ConnectCad was intended to work? A lot of this from me might stem from me just figuring things out on the fly. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Conrad Preen Posted March 4, 2021 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 4, 2021 @hihosilvey First of all, constructive comment like yours never causes offence. On the contrary these kind of explorations are what help us keep ConnectCAD out there in front of the rest. And that's why I don't like to force people into a particular workflow. That feels like the tail wagging the dog. In my view the software should support the process you find most natural. We already have plans well advanced to facilitate greater customization of arrow labels. Moving whole chunks of schematic including arrow connections between layers is a technical challenge. We will definitely look into it. But I come back to the fact that the main driver for this need is the labeling of arrows on paper printouts. The old naming paradigm of <layer> <device> <socket> is in any case somewhat dated because now an arrow can appear in a viewport on any sheet layer. That's what needs to be improved. Even a simple reference code like 'A', 'B', 'C' would do fine for navigating no paper. "Customise length and direction of arrows on both sides." Basically the problem is the lack of a control handle at the destination end. It would have to be visible and active when the destination layer is visible and active. And we don't have that facility yet. I'm aware of the issue and if we can fix it we will. Conrad Quote Link to comment
elc Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) Hello all,started a new topic, but found this while having a general read through the forum topics (I can't remember having such a hard time to learn about a software. well, maybe, blender. but only because there are too many tutorials. due to the price tag, I guess. 😅) so, if you find @hihosilvey's approach "interesting", what would be your recommended workflow @Conrad Preen? (I can still do it differently, if I want. 😉 ) because I am really struggeling with the file setup. (having all on one layer is nice, but then I have to find a workaround for the layout frame reference, if the schematic is not in the center, having seperate layers might be better for the layout arranngement, but then the issue of automatic sheet numbering remains, having different files is nice for sheet numbering, but... I don't want to bore anybody. you get my point, I hope. 🙂 ) tl;dr Is there any chance for a one or two sample setups? As a video or a sample file. (the "VW University" is a great idea, but lacks a bit of ConnectCAD insights. IMHO) thanks so much Edited February 17, 2022 by elc formatting Quote Link to comment
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